...the matrix of possibilities...topping as it were, the Big T (and other hormones) with the vagaries of human choice...

Jasjit, infinite thanks for a fabulous post..loved both the parts.. and as usual, you trigger thinking and myriad insights..

love
sukanya

Woa Jasjit,

Part two be proved to more interesting than part one.

Especially the part about behavioural patterns. In the morning I was going thru an article in the Times supplement on why men are "afraid to say yes". With the rise in indifference towards commitments and permanent relationships.

I have a question....
What was considered as more of a social trend, can it also be partially due to a sudden rise in T? Or is it the changing social patterns is revealing what was already there.

Hi Sukanya & Sangeeta

Indeed the T is an interesting hormone as it seems to explain a fair amount of 'uniform' masculinity. However like the piece suggests much rests on the brain and its specific patterns of translating it's environment, desires and needs. Writing (and reading) on the T set up more questions in my head than gave me answers.
Like for your question Sangeeta I feel there is no conclusive proof yet about whether the social trend comes first or the T-level. Studies so far show that evolutionary (thereby socialized) needs triggered T levels. And then those higher T levels led to some specific behaviour patterns. That it leads to greater emotional fluxes in men, less stability and higher 'ego' responses is obvious. And yet in women higher T do not create exact effects but get moderated and translated into some different feminine versions is so fascinating. I would love to know why, for instance, estradiol (female hormone) converted from testosterone has a 'resistance' to changing back.

I hope to raise at least some more interesting questions and perhaps hint at possible patterns in my concluding piece.

Dear Jasjit

What an amazingly informative article. I have to say whenever I think of the big T the image of Mr. T comes to mind. I dont know if you people know him he used to be a really famous tv character. He was big, and looked mean.

But its dangerous also to say that big t is behind everything because then men will blame every act on their hormones dont you think?

Jasjit i forgot to ask you. I had read somewhere that the clitoris is actually a stunted penis. I hope you know what i mean. Is that true? Also Sukanya it would be good if you shared your insights here as this is all very interesting.

Hi Kranti

yes I know what you mean about Mr T and Big T but if you rememebr the character Mr T was a 'good guy' though he did look mean and big. I think the article also suggests that not everything belongs to the hormones at best they give some scales of measurement. There are other deciding factors within us which can aid or water down a hormone's impact.

As for the clitoris being a mini penis. Hmmm I don't know since many theories abound on what we are actually comparing with. It does have a high concentration of nerve-endings like the tip of the penis which gives them a common high sensory scale. In women therefore the clitoris is the spot of peak pleasure as is true for men's penis.

Ditto Sangeeta. Jasjit this article is really even more amazing than the previous one in terms of information. I found the bit about estradiol not reversing back to testerone (well with difficulty) really interesting. To me it implies that because the feminine is the source of everything, the wisdom behind creation, it actually manifests testosterone. Therefore once the testosterone returns to its original source it gets subsumed in it. Does this make any sense? Just toying around with the reasons why.

love
anusheh

Anusheh

That is a very interesting insight. Definitely one which makes sense in the metaphysical sense. Now we just have to wait and see how science catches up with this one and how it explains it in bio-chemic terms.

Hi Kranti, hope i will be able to articulate my thoughts on this topic...at the moment i get so lost in reading and absorbing the posts on this blog..and feel like a preschool child amidst the discourse..

Jasjit, what would this manifest mean in terms of the Big T and Mr T... don't know why i was reminded of this, and feel I must share it here..

Last year, St. Petersburg got its first museum of erotica.. while browsing (St Petersburg is one of my favourite cities with all its human history) I found an exhibit picture that I haven't gotten over yet...rasputin's penis preserved for posterity...

While I think its hilarious, everytime I see or recollect the pic I double over..it also probably has a message since mad monk rasputin practiced an unusual cult - a strange mixture of christianity and sexual practices at Nicolas II's court...

Quote from the news article "There is one exhibit in the museum which makes Knyazkin be especially proud of. This is the 30-centimeter preserved penis of Grigory Rasputin. “Having this exhibit, we can stop envying America, where Napoleon Bonaparte’s penis is now kept. … Napoleon’s penis is but a small ”pod“ it cannot stand comparison to our organ of 30 centimeters…” the head of the museum said..."

Would love to hear your thoughts..

interesting and informative post, jasjit..tx...

Sukanya

What's there to say but to double up with laughter. It's all about size and hence power through size and hence 'I am bigger and better'. Napoelan is yours and 'small' and Rasputin is 'ours'(even though considered mad and a murderer too) however pitched against the 'bigger' size redeems all because he redeems us. One of the baseline primal stereotypes of T. Rasputin was held in much awe because of his power over Czar Nicholas's wife (since she apparently ran the empire)and naturally it had to be assumed that Nicholas was impotent and in comparison Rasputin a sexual God. Now why would you not want to preserve the pivot of the sexual God?

Thanks Sundar

That was hilarious Sukanya. In my course in denmark we had to go to the panum institute of physiology which hosted the worlds largest museum of preserved body parts. The penis ofcourse was part of the exhibit. Cant say it looked very flattering in a little bottle swimming by itself. lol. So I really dont know what they're going on about.

..preserve the pivot..ha ha ha..

Did you laugh as much as i did, and still do?

You must see the picture...will send on email if you think appropriate..it doesn't swim

Anusheh, its after all the Big T manifesting.. and T makes them go on and on about it.. like Jasjit says size and power.. the Boys' Club are at it..

lots of love

Hi all. Good site. Have been reading u for some days. Great range all well written. So Jasjit this T thing sounds quite tenuous, with so many factors in play. Don't you think the research needs more focus? It's good reading but you must be careful that you refrain from sweeping statements. The T thing shouldn't degenerate into male bashing. Perhaps I should wait for your conclusion.

Dear Venkat...apologies, no desire to male bash....sukanya still laughing...dont think I can stomach the picture though.:-)That was really funny. Thanks for the laughs

Dear Venkat,

Thanks for the reminder. This space - as much as i know it, does not intend to and will never degenerate into any kind of bashing... if you listen and look into subtleties, there is balance and harmony and fun in the play of sharing words, experiences, insights, learning.. hope you continue to read and post..

best wishes,
sukanya

Thanks Venkat

I agree that there could be a host of detailed studies, and especially with the new findings on the human brain, perhaps they are already underway. the possibilties are stupendous. What I have liked about Blum's work is that it abstains from any sweeping statements and in fact tries to bring in as many aspects (even when contradictory) in the nature of a truly scientific approach. Her humour is at times caustic and quite witty but seems to me in good spirit and with no edges to it. Finally on your fear of male bashing, seconding what Sukanya rather eloquently stated, I would add that on this blog at least, we hope the debate will help us all raise the bar on how sexuality and gender can be indeed discussed and analysed amongst other things. And to do that we all need to be able to be a little more objective and perhaps a little less sensitive. And humour has such a relaxing touch, don't you think?

Thanx Sukanya

Dear Jasjit,

This piece of yours is incredible! Whether its the brain, the glands, the hormones, whatever that is there in our body has been given to us by God for us to survive in the best possible way that we can on this earth. So with changes in our environment our organs also adapt to it.

Thanks Jasjit,

It's true maybe evolution is slowly changing our brain, though we may feel that we have arrived. To think that it controls the way we project our behaviour into the social behaviour and vice versa.

The more I read your article, more I realised it is actually a vicious cycle for the T in a man. Imagine, when it's very high it could border into violence and all sorts of traits with which the saner brain will have a conflict. Where as when it's low it conforms to a much tamer version, which again goes against the brain's image of man.

Ouch it's deeper than male bashing. I can't forget that the reasons, which make me aggressive or competitive, could be the T.

It's such a paradox. If we consider Man as an animal let's consider it this way...

Note: This is my attempt to understand the hormone. Please this should not be taken as a reason for messy marriages.
------------------------
Here goes.

Being a male animal probably the desire for higher virility the ultimate objective would be to attract a mate. Like the pushy Blue Jay or flashy cardinals. While becoming stronger or more "male" per say can initially attract a lot of sighs from the females.

But the paradox is it also gives rise to side effects, which can be counter-productive. Like loosing interest in being married or domestic. Anger, promiscuity, Ego, that doesn’t go down very well with the females. Can be detrimental to the whole courtship scenario. Cause the female is looking for security to produce and keep the human race running.

So instead of falling for the woman the T makes him falls for himself and succumb to his super ego. Those who do manage to come out of this firewall have to lower his levels of T to be attractive to the female. To make nests or become fathers. Once monogamous they loose their so-called powerful projection of T.

Slowly his image of losing that virile self pushes him again towards more T. So it gives rise to higher T, violence, fights, ego, extramarital affairs, break ups and so on. Back to square one. Those who are not really bothered about that image carry with lesser T.
I can see why moods of men go up and down like waves.

Then should we say --- the loss of virility, rise of T, late in the marriage -- results in marital violence, sexcapades, more fights or divorces? Or even for that matter the middle aged man's lust, going towards pornography etc.

It's quiet a tug of war I must say between the male brain, set social images and Mr.T.

If the female was a like a fish or a deer, not thinking much into her mate's behaviour patterns, probably, divorces wouldn't have happened. But the brain in women again reacts to outer stimuli. So higher T in the man triggers higher T in the wife and results in fights irreparable.

Could be.... I'm just pondering. If anybody finds loopholes, more questions, do shoot.

For eg. When the desire to be more virile,
Popular and strong led Peter Parker to become Spiderman. As a hero or the ultimate picture of "The Man" he is desirable but he can't reach the girl at that point in his garb as the ultimate strong man. It's only when he is a normal, boy next door, and kind of weak in the eye and considered not too sexually attractive that he can actually reach the girl at her level.

Where as bit more T in the Doc.Ock has turned him totally undesirable. Hungry for power, egocentric, violent. I won't say man, because he is just an over productive hormone.. ha ha

----------------

I can picture Estradiol actually having the last laugh. If I was T and had converted into something more controlled, I would never want to go back. It’s almost like rafting in the Beas all my life. Please too much confusion.... To be or not to be.

So next time I see a man with road rage I have to consciously tell my brain to shut up the T factory and hold on to calmer Estradiol.

with due respect to all shares here, please let us see things in context...while hormonal actions are a key in the human body, there are so many energies at work in the cosmos today...the galaxy with its suns itself is undergoing a transition...the brain structure is evolving towards the next species after homo sapiens which is scheduled in a 1000 years according to some perspectives and which is also supposed to be a unisexual manifest...the nature of science itself is evolving...as are its discoveries...the wheels within wheels of processes continues and we are in tune with them as a parameter of our consciousness levels...every single cell in our body is evolving every minute in accordance with the cosmic intelligences at work...i respect the findings shared here but would like to extend a word of caution...life is like a piece of tapestry , interwoven in its manifests...to separate a strand and analyze it is a scientific approach which may be skewed in its observations in the absence of a holistic perspective..seeing the part of a process in the absence of a view on the whole can be harmful for a lay person...the changes happening in the pareintal and frontal lobes of the brain by themselves have awesome impacts on man's awareness capacities...
let us observe life in all its awesomeness, always wholesome in its manifests...we are an intrinsic part of the process...it is happening in us, maybe some of us are aware, others are not...does not stop the mammoth process at work...it is ok for fun to run inside a running train...but let us be aware that the train is running...

Dear Sangeeta

that's quite a colourful picture you paint and undeniably imaginable. Now i see why you are drawn to creative, dramatic art forms. Yes there are definite correlations between higher T and fight/flight responses in all the studies I have listed and not listed. However the question reamins only on how external triggers bolster or diminsh T levels. And of course the question on how the individual responds to those triggers are where the other variables come into play.

Personally I feel science is a good indicator of structures and patterns. An indicator at best to know where to look, but how to interpret what you see comes from myriad concepts which make up an individual's consciousness/experiences. Science is great at braodbanding some patterns but fails everytime the exception stands up to be counted.

I think all of us find the estradiol connection interesting and your theory makes perfect sense too. I am checking to spot some recent study and let's see if it has any more answers.

Sundar

With due respect to your concerns I do not think it was being suggested either in the posts or in the comments that any of the theories are being forwarded as water-tight conclusions. As for the uncertainty principles of a Universe in a constant state of flux, it is a fact within which most science endeavours to approximate and investigate.

I do hope the attempt of this blog is to inform, question, and re examine all that falls within the purview of its subject.

jasjit,thank you. my posting was in keeping with the same spirit you mention.it was not in critical vein.

Jasjit,

You know there could be 100 reasons for a man to be angry, or violent or commitment phobic. T could be just a small percentage of it. But the fact is your articles let's us explore science and it's large/small contribution to social behaviour patterns. It also opens up a lot of avenues of discussion.

It may a take years of research to find the right answers and then years to convince people about it. This may be the beginning.

Some times we assign certain things to the inexplicable or the unresolved darkness. But maybe there is an answer hidden deep in science, in us. It's just a probe. There are so many things that we don’t know or didn’t even think of knowing.

A case in example --

When I was a girl we had a Lawyer/lecturer couple as neighbours. Their 4 yr old son was extremely belligerent. Parents were highly polished and educated, concerned people. But the kid was abusive, aggressive and used very foul language. He beat me quiet a number of times. If nothing he would spit at us or throw something at us.

Naturally as kids we avoided him. Made fun of him and some older boys used to deliberately provoke him into anger. We never played with him, never allowed him in our homes. The mothers used to guard against him. Cause there was always a threat that he will hit some kid with something.

I lost touch with them when we shifted home.

Much later I saw a program in NGC, where I saw that such behaviour is common among children suffering from Zinc and other mineral deficiency.

I never met that kid again. But I heard that his parents got him treated and he turned out to be a brilliant boy. Now he is an engineer.

But the regret is there with me. If we knew why he was the way he was, probably we wouldn't have pushed him away to be a loner.

Now when I see such kids around and people pass on his behaviour as a character flaw I have the knowledge to correct them. Cause I know how bad it feels to carry around a badge of "bad behaved child". It ruins the child's entire future and mental makeup and social behaviour. And of course if he gets severe punishment for being that way, tab to ho gaya kaam tamam. That remains as a scar forever.

I just quietly tell the parents, "Get his mineral balance checked up. It's may not be his fault, it's his diet. Or maybe it was your diet during pregnancy."

It's a tough job to convince. But at least I put the keera in their head. ;-)

thats a very useful share, sangeeta...tx...

Yes Sangeeta,

Thank you for some great posts!
I believe in putting the keera in people's heads too... one learnt of the impact of nutritional deficiencies especially micronutrients only when i got to working with children and young women..
Also will remember to tell my brain to shut down the T factory and concentrate on the calmer estradiol (thanks jasjit)...

keep blogging...

Hi buddy,

You have posted a very interesting topic. and the second one is so informative and analytical and in the same sense raises some peculiar questions and doubts.

after reading through i had a thought...a little silly perhaps...but I think Testesterone and Estrogen are one and the same. The base molecule plays God and decides the Leela it wants to manifest for that particular moment.

Consequently a woman with high reception might be tremendously aggressive at one time and when the balance changes turn into submission at another time. So too with man.

the differentiation into sexes happens at the embryological level and remains constant throughout life.

what determines our behaviour after that is how the hormone plays its leela.

You have said that interchangeability is more so one sided between the two hormones. I speculate if that this intechangeability might also be supplemented by the down grading of receptors per se and hence a critical balance is always maitained.

Its speculation.

lots of love,
:)

must confess i keep re-reading this article...i do not naturally gravitate towards such articles..so takes a bit of effort for me...to understand...am a novice in these regions of explore....but a lot of things fit on random observance....and as aachi has mentioned in his comment, the hormones and their generation as well as the stimuli to the brain(thats my addition) are by themselves part of the larger leela...

Good Morning Sangeeta

Yes! many things must come into play like nutritional/chemical deficiencies as well to explain mood-swings etc. The interesting thing though is that all is an expression/outcome of some deeper karmic (for those who believe) stream which surfaces at different points of our life journey. Someone I have know for a long time came from a fairly 'normal' childhood and family. However she was an incensed child, brooding, melancholic and highly self-destructive. In her teens the anger was very violent and quite masculine in its self-expression. It led her to many 'suicidal' situations as well as addictions which had nearly consumed her whole being. alongside there was this very fragile endearing side to her and the contrast was intense.

Fortuitously, she embarked on a spiritual self-healing path and began some arduous work on her self. The first set of experiences she had thereof were intense past life images and she discovered that she had been a man in many of her recent past lives, angry, abused, abusive, volatile and extremely violent. Working through how those patterns got exacerbated by this life's events she was able to purge all with remarkable accuracy. BTW she carried many high T symptoms in her physical appearnce as well.

Finally after a dedicated cleansing the transformation in her is nothing short of miraculous. She is gentle, kind extremely loving and most importantly sagacious in her responses to the most trying situations. The appearance has also altered radically. Most people who have known her as a teen-ager and young woman cannot believe the change.

So I gather the chemicals are there exactly the way they need to sculpt our karmic bundles. Indeed changing requires choice and understanding.

Good Morning Aachi

Good points buddy. Nothing peculiar about your doubts. I'm goint to attempt to go into some depth about the metaphysical implications of this chemical thing in the final piece(and I hope with some clarity)but I think it is the micro/macro issue. The whole is undisturbed and unchallenged but the parts carry the twists and turns of the patterns in the weave. And I think it is critical to try and get oneself as deep into the dirt as is possible with the parts, for they carry some significant truths. For many(most) beginning there is the only way to move to the larger picture. And for their sake one needs to try and dig as deep as possible into the micro. Also because for too long the micro has been hijacked by simplistic mainstream views pedalled in the name of 'rigorous science' 'lofty philosophy' or 'human psychology'

Hmmm maybe I should call the final peice the Leela T!

good morning jasjit...thats an interesting point you have made in your comment to aachi...guess what point and at what level one gets into seeing the Leela is also a cosmically determined process.. a leela by itself...

Dear Jasjit,

Now that you mention past lives, I want to be a little daring and pick an issue which is very close to the Indian Psyche. I face it more now that I am hot commodity in the marriage market.

The whole thing about "Manglik" and "non Manglik"

In India many girls don't get married easily if they are found manglik. A few yrs back when my interest in astrology had just begun I found an article by an astrologer in the Bengali almanac.

What was interesting is that he had adapted his studies to the changing times & social patterns.

I quote ---

"The term Mangalik happens when a girl/boy has a very strong influence of Mars. Mars being the planet of aggression and war, it gives a certain amount of assertiveness, dynamism, self pride and such things in the person. The behavioural patterns would be a strong, self willed, determined, go-getter kind of a person. In a man such traits are welcome. It's needed for him to survive in high competition at work.

Whereas in case of marriage if a woman is an equally strong minded person then there could be too many differences in opinions. Naturally a woman influenced with martian traits was difficult to 'tame' as a wife in those times. So a rule was made that only an equally strong man - a Mangalik himself can control a Mangalik woman.

A non mangalik man whose venus (planet of love) is stronger will get emotionally hurt by the agressive, nature of a strong willed woman. And since in a marriage at that time the man was supposed to be the leading partner, such a marriage didn't work.

Those astrologers who are stuck in that time period when such rules were made, will tell you even now that one should not marry mangalik girls.

But if you see the times today; Women are going out to work, they are living alone, they are choosing tough jobs, they are in nucleus families. The social responsibilities of a woman have drastically changed. Besides women are not marrying at the age of 8 or 10. They are full grown women.

In this century these women who have go out and work, or run their families alone, need a lot of Martian strength in them.

And being a Mangalik may prove to be benficial for the growth of the woman kind.
--------------

Then of course he went on to describe in detail in the 5 page article how small rules and superstition have made a monster out of the clause of Mangalik.

He concludes his aticle -- In the past the role of women in the society, family and the country was of no importance at all. The rules that were made according to that society should not be followed blindly in today's context. Under the pretext of astrology a lot of superstitions are being sold to the hapless parents of such girls. Astrology is a vast science. And more and more people are falling into wrong hands and distorted versions of simple caution notes.

---------------------------------

I found the article very insightful and progressive. It breaks a lot of myths. In fact after I read the article I couldn't disregard Astrology any more.

Hmmm Sangeeta

What a great find. Indeed it places a whole new light on the hidden reason why Manglik had become such a bane especially for women. Of course in the past few hundred years traditional wisdom (in almost all its strains) has been manipulated to meet the interests of the reigning powers be they class, caste, gender etc. Brahmins kept it that way by even using the caste system to legitimize their hold on the holy texts, through which they perpetuated power and distortion for others in power.

This century is going to be a watershed in redefining, reclaiming and reinterpreting all. Beginning with a number 2 (astrologically significant) it will move towards greater balance between Yin/yang forces irrespective of scale.

Interesting how I have also heard that the myth was that if a manglik woman married a non-manglik her husband would die. In effect his masculine was at risk I guess because of her towering personality and it was easier to call it his 'death' and naturally more frighteneing.

Thanks for the info. I do enjoy reading your posts, they are very thoughtful and thought provoking. :-)

Hi Sangeeta,

I don't know much about astrology so I don't know about this mangalik thing. But even otherwise one sees that in any relationship two very strong minded people don't get along or too many differences crop up between them. And if 'mangalik' people are aggressive etc then its better mangaliks don't marry each other.

Jasjit perhaps the myth that mangalik girls should not marry non-mangalik guys or else the guy would die actually works in the favour of girls because then they are atleast spared of the 'stigma' of widowhood.

those are insightful shares, sangeeta and jasjit...astrology is an indicative science and as much influenced by various macro parameters within its realm of express...while shani phases are treated with fear and apprehension in colloquial realms,such phases are great blessings in spiritual evolutionary contexts...
what is food for one appears as posion for another...

speaking as one respects astrology and vaastu and other traditional sciences, i would like to share and interesting discovery in my relams of explore....like any other, they are also a function of consciousness levels....we are more vulnerable in lower levels of consciousness to aberations in their space...as consciousness levels rise, as teh chakras start rotating at near optimized rpms, as our awareness levels increase, their holds on us ebb until we experience a libaration from crippling patterns...soem aspects of karma which are indicted by these sciences we need to essentially go thorugh though...

sorry for all those typos...guess the intent comes thru...tx.

Thanks Jasjit, Thank you Annie

Jasjit -- thanks for the blog to inspire me to write so much.

When we talk of future and progress the first thing that comes to our mind is growth. And for growth it's essential for some things to die. When something ends it leaves space for something new to grow. The keyword is change.

In India the insecurities of growth is too high. We are so caught up in our past glories, failures, myths and stories that we forget to adapt and change with time. The ancient studies should be there as the roots of our culture as we branch on to new knowledge.

What happens is either some thing is held on to in spite of their irrelevance in the society today. Or it is totally disregarded as 'backdated' superstitious or unscientific.

Somehow this sneering attitude of science towards our ancient studies is also a prejudice. If we respect it and study it deeply it can actually be a great study into human psyche.

I for eg. Started reading about astrology, when I found the mysteries human behaviour linked to certain planets. It's quiet interesting to read.

Annie -- even I was thinking of the same thing. It can work both ways actually. I won't say Mangalik's are aggressive. Assertive would be a better word. They are people who are difficult to dominate. So there could be two scenarios.
Pros and cons to both...

M&M -- pro -- Only an assertive woman can stand upright in front of her equal partner...
But too but 'I, me, myself' in the couple can kill the purpose 'we... that's death of a marriage Jasjit.

M & non M -- pro -- If love conquers all then a softer gentler version can balance and complement and use the assertive or leadership qualities of the partner. Be it a man or woman.
On the other hand -- If both partners are soft hearted there could be too much weepy trouble.
And if one of them being strong, either way can be a buoy of support in this volatile world of marital relationships.

It's up to us how we view it.

hey sangeeta, you raise some very interesting issues and add a lot of value to the sharings here...keep blogging....

Hi Sangeeta!

Really very interesting discussion you have brought up here. But if you ask me, I believe there can be no formula (like a bollywood film) that always works. Manglik or no-manglik, a marriage is about work. it requires efforts from both sides. It cant be a one-way road. Also, I feel that the people change according to the situation and its demands. For example, I have known couples, both the people being very sweet and sensitive by nature. but gradually, one of them ends up taking on the role of the leader because after all they need to survive in this world.

i am sure there are so many people in this world who get married, have happy married lives, without ever finding out if they were mangliks or non-mangliks!

Well of course this is just my take on it. :)

seems some girls missing sex in real life are making up by giggling around T and P.

harb, the psychologist...

Harb, hassa thatta also has its limits. You obviously dont know where to draw the line. Or is it just a new way of seeking attention?

here is a joke from the innocent days:

a group of girls were sitting somewhere and talking of you know what...

then one of them suddenly adressed others:" i wonder what the boys must be talking when they thus get together..."

"the same as us, what else..." an other replied.

"tan te oh bare besharam ne [if so, what shameless creatures they are!"

Harb you have just answered a question of mine. I have often wondered whether an experience of non duality results in one being able to overcome gender, especially its limitations. I guess not. Men will continue to be men and perhaps thats why Jasjit's T article was there....as a reminder. Thanks for that.

yes, anusheh, it is an other way of seeking attention...since i dont know much about T...

already CROSSED THE LIMITS??

may be, sorry, yet give me credit that at least i did not find any male-bashing in it like others...

well then Harb you got it.....attention that is.

anusheh, so long as there will be women there will be men.

the experience of non-dulity does not change one's gender just as the experience of sex or love - experiences of nonduality at some lesser level - does not. it just shows the goal. to be reached through many cycles on the way. but when that will be reached one will not be here, at least writing on the blogs.

moreover, if something pinches, look within and see if it has some counterbutton there. as it must be so it may be time to work on that...rather than looking the other (outer) way...if it is not there then no such talk can touch you not to talk of hurting or going out of limits..

yes, jasjit's T may be a reminder but just as well as my above lines. in fact everything being written here must be a reminder of something in some way and not just of jasjit's T series.

bye for now, wonder, why what i wrote could not be taken in a lighter vein...

sorry, one thing i forgot, i forgot that this blog is linked to ifsha...it is not a free blog. that for me is like being linked to a gurdawara and so i should have been careful. noted for future. otherwise really i ws just giving full play to my haasa thatha and nothing else. i should have noted what others who newly come to this blog will think of it. so sorry...

harb,to me, your last-but-one post on this thread was was brilliant, infact had a satori-like quality to it....i do not know your intent in posting the earlier provocative words...but spaces such as these demand a certain dignity and etiquette in interface....needless to add, as you aptly mentioned, i do not think anyone who is in these spaces is enlightened...maybe some of us are in process, consciously or otherwise...acceptance is a quality which would naturally come in some of those spaces which seem to be still projections for a lot of us... but i also wonder a provocation such as the one you adopted would happen in those realms of infinite compassion and understanding...maybe you or the others know more about it...

judgements are a quality of a mind stifled in bondage and perceptions...always a limited way to be...as we all march towards non-judgemental realms of oneness in total acceptance and dissolution...

harb, none of us are here by accident in the greater scheme of things....all of us have a take home....your words have their own role in the evolution of others here, if they chose to see it...just as others words may have for you...it might have sparked a reaction immediately, but i am sure the learners in each of us would be able to rise beyond our limitations and see that...

all the same, it would help if decorums and protocols of communication are respected...in a sense of genuine respect for each other...

i am not speaking on anybody's behalf here...purely a personal view point...

Harb

As you rightly said it is about the inner world. So if you interpret it as a gurdwara or anything else feel free to search within for why you interpret it thus.

Harb, and all on the blog:

This exchange is so disappointing; unexpected, unwarranted, and unacceptable. you may not agree or like it, but I must write this... and apologies to all, in case it offends any of you.

Many like me, who read and comment on this blog maybe lesser mortals, not evolved seers or seekers, and that is why we are here.. to have an interactive space for dialogue and expression... where we can be ourselves.. not because we dont have real life sex...thank you!
surely that does not merit such words..maybe we will not reach higher levels of consciousness, or achieve greater spirtual goals by reading and writing on blogs...but yes comments and exchanges like this bother me..

Harb, couldn't you take the lighter vein lens? Is that a prerogative only for those who deem themselves to be higher and above? Well, there is enough out there to take if I want to, I don't need to come here and "giggle around T & P" as you put it. And I am looking within Harb, to find that counterbutton you speak of.. and it tells me right now that somewhere hearts and spaces are still not expansive enough to accommodate "lesser mortal hassa thatta".. and its so sad that you have such a comment about the blog being linked to IFSHA..

I don't know what others think or feel..hope I wont want to write here again, nor to read comments such as these..

Thanks Anusheh.

ok sukanya, sorry, admin may delete my post if it is so out of the way...i wont mind.

thanks anusheh, sundar all the same.

harb

I don't think its a question of admin deleting a post... they can delete all mine if they wish to.. to me this is sacred space and my thoughts, perspectives and words may not belong here, in the higher realms of evolved consciousness...

But i am human, I am imperfect, and that is why I come here - to read and absorb what you and other teachers express, so that with my limited understanding and intelligence I get to know and learn more... my words may seem juvenile and childish to you all for I do not have learned expressions.. but even with all my limitations and immaturity, I will not participate, contribute or comment in a way that affects the space or dignity of others. I feel strongly about such things and believe that I must speak up.

My apologies harb... I will not comment on anything again.. like you said, its better to go within and explore myself in silence.

Also, these are my personal views and opinions and should not be linked to anyone or anything or interpreted in any other way.

Sundar, thanks.

Great post Jasjit. So mysterious this chemical life within us that swells and thrums to the pulls of emotion, karma. Fascinating stuff. Was happily reminded of that book in the IFSHA library - sex on the brain.

sukanya, it is your prerogative to chose what you would like to do...as a fellow being, i can only request you that you are an invaluable presence in this space with your expereinces and spontaneous outflows through your words...i believe you are a great communicator...

reconsider , if u will...a matter of your choices though...

sukanya, it should at least lift much load from your head that all - and especially me whom you only the other day so mistakenly saw as your pir fakir, sain baba etc etc - here are lesser mortals like you. moreover, this site is not mine that you should leave it but of ifsha, we may come and go but this site and ifsha will remain...so address yourself to ifsha, i have said sorry, and if at all i would go rather than you...i did something wrong not you.nor ifsha..

personally, i would like to see nobody go....i am one of team here...i would see the event as a "happening" in the realm of manifests like any other...

Dear Sukanya

To truly learn how to play we become part of the play. So watch it for what it truly is and then step out and let the laughter begin.

Quoting Desdirata for you:
'You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life
keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy."

It's a beautiful day in Delhi and who can take that away from you?
love

MG

Indeed just rediscovered Blum's great writing and found these two pieces quite interesting. Am writing a concluding section to them largely about the many possibilities of 'androgens' as these mysterious secretions are called.

"to truly learn how to play we become part of the play"...those are awesome words, jasjit...tx.

Jasjit, thanks so much! yes its a beautiful day in Delhi and no one can take that away from me! Thanks also for the lines from Desiderata...and for the reminder to watch it all for what it is...

Thank you all, for your patience. My father constantly cautions me.."fools rush in where angels fear to tread.." and off I went again, put both my feet into my mouth... but that's me... and my learnings haven't really happened yet...but much of this puts me on the way to looking within more and more...

best always

ramana maharshi used to say;" whosoever forces you to look within is your guru."

amen!

sorry sukanya, forgot to add, "so now we both are each other's guru lol."

sundar, weather in the inner spaces seems to be a bit disturbed today...not only here but the day began like this in all manifest spaces today lol.

its ok , harb....these are days of enhanced photon belt movements....one thing it can do in human consciousness is what we call the "surfacing of the dark night" in some processes....unknown pains, surfacing of man's collective karma, past life rememebrances and so much more can happen ....leading to lot of discomforts within...awareness can help...in watching such cyclones rise and pass...

Dear Jasjitji
As a biochemistry student, I have read lots about hormones in details. But this article is so enriched for the angle which specifically the author has focused. I strongly feel that this article will help many men and women facing social problems, marriage problems, if they really try to understand and analyze this unique aspect.

Love
Buas

Hi Sundar,

thanks for your encouragement...

Hi shubhosree,

Exactly what I said -- "it's upto us how we view it"... unfortunatly most people are seeing the glass half empty. And everytime it's being used against women. Wish this entire thing horoscope matching gets replaced with blood testing. ;-)

Hi rest of the gang.... a gr8 deal happened while I was away.

Hello Jasjit

Wonderful post. "let the laughter begin"....
Waiting for some more nice things from you.

love all
sangs sans fangs

I forgot to mention... There is an intersting article in today's HT city on "commitment phobia". Good to read.

enjoy
sangeeta

Hi Sangeeta!

I so agree with you that blood tests before marriage should be made mandatory!!!

Will check out the article in HT. Thanks.

sukanya, haven't i myself put my foot into my mouth? so what, only the innocent, like babies, can put their foot in month. this way they may become a butt of others laughter for a while but it is also their strength. as i said apropos your story a few posts back: innocence and god are always closeby...(or perhaps close friends...)

cheers!

hey harb, allow those feet to drop back to where they really belong and release your mouth to eat those wondrous parathas and makai di rotis....

live rivers in real flow do not halt at events or places...they just move on....as they say, the past is history, the future is nystery, the present is a "gift"..hence called the "present"...

*mystery....tx.

no problem sundar, with this much foot in mouth i will at least speak less lol. thank you though.

and moreover, now you can throw that envy thing towards me once and for all! henceforth attractive women will no doubt pay attention to me but in the wrong way and may that reflect in the right way towards you lol.

enjoy...

harb, who has always though 'lonely are the brave!'

as u c it so let it be harb......

Jasjit,

Awesome stuff you have written about the T. Now if my friends laugh at me for staring at the lovely night sky I can tell them 'It must be my hormones.'

Sundar, Harb, Sukanya, Anusheh control your T :)

tx for that advice, raj:) btw i remember u saying u or was it from your freind's eyes...found it unmanly to cry...am glad u now feel comfy watching the moon....

raj, thanks, now the question arises, how to control the T, by sitting at the shore doing some desire-controlling tapsaya or by passing through the inferno first. if you just mean the bit of a row here that is already controlled.

hi
I MARRIED A MANGLIK GUY AND HE IS SO AGGRESIVE.
AND OF COURSE I AM NOT MANGALIK PERSON. TO SAVE MY MARRIAGE WHAT SHOULD I DO I DON'T KNOW . I LOVE HIM VERY MUCH . BUT I AM NOT SURE HE LOVES ME. WE HAD ALWAYS FIGHT IN ANY SIMPLE TOPICS. PLS GIVE ME SME SUGGATIONS
THANKS

Dear Priya

The astrological arrangements that affect our lives are indicators but not impenetrable blocks. If he is aggressive he needs to be made aware and his love and commitment to you and the relationship should make him sensitive to changing whatever creates friction. You should speak about it to him openly. If he is unwilling to change, then manglik or otherwise he can never build a healthy relationship. And it does take two Priya to make love grow. Help him understand that in no uncertain terms.