something to look forward to , aachi...domains of infinite potentials and infinite possibilities...this awesome existence, where seeming paradoxes(from our perceptions) rest in peace...

Fascinating questions Aachi

The horizontal eight! Well eight is a critical number in Vedic numerology, though untapped for its true potential. It is the number of transformation, death, change, rebirth. The circumstnces around it therefore are always intense. Indian wisdom is replete with its use. To name a few, Durga and Kali both have 8 arms, the complete Gnana yoga is called the ashtanga yoga (eight-limbed) in the 9 days of Goddess (durga worship) Ashtami is the most significant. Interesting also because 8 as it comes after 7 (the elemental spiritual numerical) then signifies change/growth/resurrection/re-birth/transmutation/resurgence.
Horizontal is a fascinating finding of Sagan since it basically must signify the lateral catalyst of exsitence. I guess 8 is also the only number creating two equilateral loops connected at the centre-duality and non-duality. And as I write this it strikes me that skidding along the horizontal eight is what the pulstaing void is about. Breathing out as the manifest and scattering us to the different edges of the two loops, sometimes as Yin expereinces and sometimes Yang and then breathing in and pulling us back to the point at the centre, beyond duality. No?

This is a number 8 year Aachi and is bound to bring sweeping changes at individual, family, country and global levels. Consider the hugely turbulent year we had last year (number 7) with magnified physical disaters affecting almost every part of the world. They were in fact seeds of massive mystical insertion. And this year will trigger the changes thereof.

Perhaps the even scarier answer is we are forever and we are its edge too.

Hi Aachi,

Edge of Forever ......... hmm ..... if there is an edge of forever, then wouldnt it be wrong to call it 'forever'??

just wondering ...

looking forward to the answers ...

Good Morning everyone! :)

Aachi

So true about the symbol of infinity. Used it all through university without really seeing the hidden eight in it. I guess the eight also confers a continum because there is no break or opening in the number just like zero. So two zeros connected at the centre, void splitting into Purusha and Prakriti with the point of oneness at the centre? just thinking aloud and its all sounding so fascinating.
I wonder how this symbol got chosen for infinity and by whom?

Sundar,

true, infinite potentials and actions rest in seeming calmness. there is no dead end in the road of the horizontal eight. it just goes on and on...

Shubhosree,

you are absolutley right in your observation. If existence is forever then there should be no edge. it is like asking us to think of a stick with one end only...its impossible.

but by trying to contemplate the impossible and trying to understand the forever we give ourselves impossible scenarios and try to understand how they define our existence.

in simple words, we make duality to define the unity.:)

Jasjit,

your comment on breathing struck me quite forcefully. what an obvious angle of perception , but I didnt know of it before. I understand many things much better now , thanks to your suggestion.
:)

Jasjit,

I sadly dont know who proposed the symbol for infinity, but going by your analysis and suggestions and inferences...I wouldnt be surprised if it was you in a previous life
for the depth of inferences you have drawn from the symbol far overtake any I have ever known before.

:)

Aachi

What an interesting thought process you have set off complete with 'aha' moments. Wish they were past life memories :) but alas they are far too laboured for that. Was thinking of the 'lateral catalyst' term I used spontaneously and began to wonder what that could mean. If infinity is a lateral catalyst phenomena in the design, then it stands to reason that from the centre must emerge the vertical catalyst. What could that be? For instance if 8 is transformative by nature/design, is lateral as the underlying force and defines infinity as that constant pulsating harmony then is there something vertical like say the 7 which brings a completely different force to the centre perhaps finite? Taking that further the 2 axis created by their intersection then create a hub of possibilities around which existence sets up its patterns in the two essential energy movements of the Universe- revolutions and rotation. The lateral catalyst (infinity) establishes the catalytic vibratory fields as cyclical or roatations. The vertical field brings in revolutions like yug, kal, time,(dunno what else!!!) creates the amplitude of what we may call Divine Will. Perhaps (tripping away Aachi) like the yoni, lingam symbol is basically this. The yoni is the lateral catalyst and the Lingam the vertical catalyst as Truth (Divine Will) penetrating as the confluence and timeless symbol of manifest creation.

You see as I went deeper into my chakra practice I discovered a fascinating connectivity between the horizontal movements (rotations) and the vertical connectivity (revolutions) between them signifying a fascinating hub of expansion and ascension.

Indeed one can't stop searching for the edge! :-)

Hello Aachi,

intense! never thought of the sign of infinity as a horizontal 8. all that it reminded me of was MATH, something i dread! nice to know it is not all bad :)

i dont think we can ever reach the edge simply coz its all growing all the time, at least not in one lifetime!

waiting for Part II

dear Aachi,
in buddhistic philosophy permanance is described as infinity...the goal of nirvana was to find permanance in the ever changing world of impermanance where every second the birth and death cycle fluctuates...
mathematically ,a limit to infinity when a reciprocal of a number is taken is zero ...basically the number breaks down ...and reaches a point where its value is constant and equal to nothing...

hi aachi, thoughtful and interesting post.

seeing within space time - horizontal/vertical, edge/beyond, now/forever, zero/infinity - are the properties of intellect. seeing beyond - only where real quest for answers to these questions can end - is the property of intelligence. i can remember, when i used to think....where this world will end? what will be beyond that...and beyond that...and beyond that...?? my intellect will take me nowhere...then something happened....and i found that i am at the centre as I AM and these questions simply vanished...

and yes consciousness, though not exactly of the kind we usually understand, is everywhere as the base, explained in my book is the no-dual/basic consciousness. in fact our usual conscious is only a relative consciousness on that basic consciousness, just as objects we see are relative to the ground/earth underneath which is everywhere.

one zero of 8 represents us as individuals and the other as 'our' universe. when we surrender or enquire, our side of the zero vanishes leaving the One.

harb.

Hi All,

So elaborate views on such wide perspectives in such connected ways.
Something that's really interesting & hence I got caught on this piece.

The word infinity (per the dictionary) comes from the Latin "infinitus" or "unbounded". It simply extends "magnitude" (measure of finiteness) beyond anything quantifyable / bounded by our finitism (philosophy of mathematics).

Going back to my school times, i remember playing with this expression in Maths: [1 + (-1)] + [2 + (-2)] + ... = 0 which (to me now) also indicates that there is an opposite to everything: +ve for -ve - good for evil, positive energy for negative energy & duality for non-duality / singularity (as said by Jasjit).

But each of these opposites summed together is "Zero"; something that does not have any negative or positive; something neutral; with no forces playing a tug-of-war.
Makes it interesting to think that Zero is the center of all the opposite forces.
But what if this Zero was Twisted (tug-of-war initiated) at the center from either sides? We get the horizontal 8 - the symbol of infinity again. And after having read Aachi's & Jasjit's views, all of that again points to that central pull (the point of twist) where everything comes to equilibrium and then again goes on looping to the "edge of forever", which can never be seen and is hence unquantifyable (as rightly questioned by Shubhosree).

(Don't know abt a limit to the length of a comment in Blogs)...

Aachi,

I found these interesting instances indicating the introduction of "infinity".
(1) The earliest known documented knowledge of infinity is presented in the "Yajur Veda" which states that "if you remove a part from infinity or add a part to infinity, still what remains is infinity".

(2) John Wallis (November 23, 1616 - October 28, 1703; an English mathematician) is usually credited with introducing this symbol for infinity in 1655. One conjecture about why he chose this symbol is that he derived it from a Roman numeral for 1000 that was in turn derived from the Etruscan numeral for 1000, which looked somewhat like 'CI' followed by a flipped 'C' and was sometimes used to mean "many".

Feels great to able to share this with such perceptive, "unbounded" people.
Thanks to all - with all my humbleness.

Dear Jasjit,

the point you make of the vertical and horizontal fields is very interesting. your interpretation of the of the lingam as a fusion of the vertical and horizontal forces is so apt.

as it does represent creation, I wont be surprised if far in the future we do find out the direction of expansion of existence and it matches exactly to what you have inferred.

Shalini,

I too hate maths! :)

but seriously trying to define the edge is beyond maths or physics...for as I said it requires one to prove that a stick can exist with one side only...mathematically it is absurd and hence wrong.

but can we reach the edge? or are we at the edge as Jasjit said or are we deep in the channels of the horizontal eight...well thats a thing we need to analyse more.

Preethi,

very abstractly true. buddhist philosophy too has an answer which suits the comparison of a person lost in the horizontal 8. nirvana is jumping off the edge into absolute permanance. no road, no 8.

Harb,

you have subtly indicated where the part 2 of my post will be going. but wonderful comparison of the sides of the 8 with us and our universe.

Surya Prakash,

i am very happy to see the myriad explanations everyone has given to define the horizontal 8. your explanation of the tug of war and the point of equilibrium defines a vivid and deep imagination.

thanks so much for the input regarding the origin of the symbol. I feel richer since i have posted this for i got to visit the imaginations and interpretations of profound nature by all of you.

thanks.

Good morning All

Interesting thoughts and insights on your post Aachi. Thanks Surya Prakash for the history on infinty.

Just to add -it has always fascinated me why an integer (defined value)dvided by zero equals infinity. As a student of Calculus, I was irritated by this uneccessary equation feeling it was just the whim of mathematicians to make calculus ever more esoteric than it already was. However now as the metaphysical truth of it has become apparent, I see how science has always ended up echoing the Intelligent Design. I guess when ever a defined value (finite perception) is placed(divided) within the context of zero(void/nothingness/infinite potential) its own potential then grows to infinity.

Such a rarefied spiritual truth, simply put in one mathematical equation! Is that not amazing???

"when ever a defined value (finite perception) is placed(divided) within the context of zero(void/nothingness/infinite potential) its own potential then grows to infinity."

Powerful!!

hi aachi, seing your interest in cosmology, here are a few observations from a newspaper today and from my book. these also show how mystics could intuite truths within their own selves which science later comes to know with the help of outside experiements:

quote:
Indian scientists close to realising Einstein’s dream
Test found for rule that unites forces of nature

Mumbai, January 7
Indian scientists have achieved what has proved to be an illusive dream for Albert Einstein and generations of physicists. They have found and proposed an experimental test for the quantum theory of gravity, the first step to unify the forces of nature that rule the universe on a large scale and the quantum forces that govern the atomic world.

“These effects can be observed and is an important step because validating quantum gravity is a necessary step in having a unified theory of forces of nature, which has been the cherished goal of generations of scientists, including Einstein,” Dr Pankaj Joshi of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR), one of the senior authors of the work published in the January 27 issue of “Physical Review Letters” said here today.

The Indian team is now banking on the upcoming experiments like the extreme universe space Observatory (EUSO), to be launched by the European Space Agency in 2010, which could help provide a test for the prediction.

The work showed that a collapsing star did not turn into a black hole or a naked singularity. However, instead it throws away all its matter in the form of an explosive burst, which would look like a flash or fireball in the sky when seen by observers.

The work builds on an extensive study of gravitational collapse of dying stars, that has been carried out at the TIFR over the past two decades by Dr Joshi and his co-workers.

A dying star dims before emitting ultra-high energy rays, which could be in the form of neutrino particles travelling close to velocity of light, high-energy Gamma rays, or other forms of a strong burst of radiation such as super-energy cosmic rays, induced by the quantum gravity effects.
unquote

and here is a relevant quote from my book which otherwise in my words describes the quantum theory of gravity, or the grandunified theory or the theory of everything. it precisely looks just outwards from that unification point and 'sees' and describes th universe game of life from there. obviously science will only fill in the blanks in it in the decades to come. no wonder it is said that mysticism intuites or shows the next goal and then science step by step reaches there. anyway, here is the quote from my book - Mosc represents Matter of spiritual category or soul or spirit or One or Oneness:

quote
This process would go on and on such that at the ultimate level of the Universe, this virtual world would almost fully unite with the actual world in the bodies of some stars, and finally fully - or indistinguishably - in the body of some far-off star. And as they unite they would annihilate each other. And the resultant explosion would cause the birth of the new - baby - Universe.

Now keeping the above in mind, and applying our ongoing description - the description of the beginninglessness and endlessness of the game of life at our levels - to the level of the Universe, after evolving sufficiently, the virtual and actual bodies of some far-off star (..like that of supernova SN 1987 A) would begin ‘sensing’ their common supersymmetric base in the form of Mosc of the same star from point A’. Or, in other words, would begin falling or coalescing into their common base in the form of Mosc from A’. And would coalesce or fall fully into it at point B’, converting in the process perhaps to a neutron star. From where first vacuum explosion, followed by radiative explosion and annihilation explosion in quick succession would give birth to the next cycle of the Universal game.

The annihilation explosions would occur because of the meeting of the virtual and actual worlds, annihilating themselves in the process. The radiative explosion would occur because of the collision of their positive and negative charges. And the vacuum explosion would occur because in annihilating themselves they would bring Mosc briefly into the picture as well.
unquote

harb

well said, jasjit, you are a verstile genius...

"when ever a defined value (finite perception) is placed(divided) within the context of zero(void/nothingness/infinite potential) its own potential then grows to infinity."

perhaps similarly, when one aspect of reality such as yin (of swan lake?), left, up is placed within the context of oneness, it is forced to show the other or opposite aspect such as yang, right, down, to complete the picture and thus help the former to grow to oneness or infinity...?

harb...in the same boat but only if he was to initiate a one-sided thread. wonder if we were torn from the same paper in some previous birth lol.

beautiful perspective shares here...the awesomeness of zero and infinity and everything in between...a circle with center points in each of us...creating and manifesting our parallel universes in consciousness...om poornamadha poornamidham....every part of the whole being a whole by itself...

Yes Aachi, I understand. enjoying the various views and perspectives here. very interesting indeed.

Hello Aachi

Sorry I've been away for a while. Its just that this piece invited so many interesting responses that I just got lost in trying to figure them all out and create a little window for myself to look through. Extremely interesting piece and thanks for all the insights on the symbol for infinity. Cant wait for the next part:-)

love
Anusheh

Hola Aachi,

I was off the blog for some time. Your question is so close to my mind. Even I as a child would constant enquire where is the edge of universe...? Is there somewhere that this vacuum ends... this space would have a boundary. Probably not. Probably it is as infinite as the human brain... and the best part of the symbol is you always come back to where you began... that's the philosophy...

My black cat command friend, Vipul had told me his horrendous experience when he was trained to make the infinity symbol while being chased my hungry hound dogs. That too he had to make sure that it did become a big "eight" so that dogs keep running in that trail of his smell and he could dodge them... It seemed impossible to me then... Now when I read all the postings, I was thinking...

Although in the macro sense things boomerang... but in real life it's so difficult to get back to where you began...

sombody gave me an example long time back that if you think of universe as a stadium, we are like small ants in the entire stadium. So we keep going on in that eight without the edge...

waiting for your next post

Hi Aachi, an interesting blog. I guess, a deluge of such feelings flashes across every human mind sometime or the other. I think it is probably because inside our grey cells (the smartest and most intelligent of human beings uses only a tiny percentage of this grey matter) there is plenty of empty 'fields' waiting to be filled over and above the inputs that are 'common'. The deluge can only be the result of supplying only the 'common', but not necessarily a malfunction. The symbol of horizontal '8' also necessarily doesn't always mean that somebody or somethingy has gotten stuck into it, it can also denote a routine. Take earth's revolving around around the sun in its axis and place it on the horizontal '8'. Now take it out! Infinity, therefore, I guess is endless, but, but .. flexible. Take creativity and put it inside the horizontal '8'. See what I mean. New inputs will follow. But slower than the pace of things inside the horizontal '8'. The ants denotes, in all probabilities, a quest and search for something new, tiny small steps, very slow. Isolated existance, I doubt.

Hi harb,

thanks for the shares. awaiting ur book.

sangeeta,

welcome back.

it is really surprising that they use the 8 in training also. about the ants and the stadium, it is a wonderful example...to the ants the stadium is 'forever' but to us it is just another stadium, perceptions differ depending on the evolution and the state of existence.

Hirak,
nice site u have. about ur post I feel the routine exists no doubt, but sometimes it is so subtle that we fail to see it. and as long as we are in that it is a vain search for the edge.

about the ants, it was more of a joy than a search. it was both humbling and gratifying to see that something powerful is out there.

Dear Anusheh,

:) I was wondering where you were. You are right, many of the comments that the commenters have put forward are defnite to make even sagan's mind go for a spin!

Hi Aachi,

Great piece and some really intense comments - hi Jasjit! - waiting impatiently for your second piece on this.

Hi venkat,

thanks.

Dear Aachi
Very thought provoking article, very good angle.
I wonder why you think horizontal eight as tiring, lonely, scary. To my thinking, the edge of everything like pleasure, fame, name, sex is actually tiring. The essence of beauty in everything lies in the infinity. The philosophy is go on exploring..... your search and hence the thrill never ends !

Cheers
Buas

Buas,

you raise a very valid point to go on exploring, but as time goes on the routine is deciphered and the mind tires. it is then that such seek the edge.

Hi Guys,

Just thinking out loud: Every human is seeking something or the other. A Worker seeks a raise, a Businessman seeks more business, Many seek love, and some seek revenge. Everyone simply keeps following a trail of thoughts / desires created in their own minds (like those ants) and throughout the journey of 'Seeking further', they really forget that it will not really end. Their mind will always find something more or something else to seek. The mere thought of realizing this brings a little piece of mind and enables us to get back to sanity.

I also with Sangeeta & Aachi's discussion that perception & relativity do matter. It's just that how open we are to jump out of the 'Forever' loop and analyse our selves/actions from different perceptions & angles. If one can do that, then he is 'in control' of his self, his senses, and his destiny.

Good to see the broad spectrum of the thoughts covered in the article by all.

Makes for an enriching experience.

pardon me :) for a li'l mistake in my last comment ... It should be "I also *agree* with Sangeeta & Aachi ..."