Chaitali

I just love the way you have written this piece and the way you have taken the simple to the complex. True one never even thinks of things like the voice and all the different expectations placed on it. Gr8 piece , really enjoyed reading it. :D

Chaitali excellent piece and on a really interesting little thought of/discussed topic. So true about how womens voices are modulated constantly. Even I remember from my school days about how the nuns in the convent would constantly go on about how girls should be seen and not heard. Can you imagine?? It always invoked rage in me but so many girls must have also absorbed that as a way of being.

As for the men, well recently I came across a man who had a really feminine voice and I have to shamefully admit that I did have some fun at his expense.

Great piece...thanks!

Great, great flowing story!!

I resonated with all the parts which exemplified motherly scolding of my booming voice.

Sometimes, in my innocent and hereby overly-excitable manner; I'd be scolded for my loudness of laugh or chatter... then I'd whisper(how defiant huh?) and be scolded for that.

I'd be trying to make a statement, and Mom would be trying to drive a dull point. lol

I must admit; the sound of a person's voice does effect my imagery of them in terms of gentleness or aggressiveness?

North

Also, forgot to make a mention that me and my four siblings; when children; found great enjoyment in mimicing voices of other people, especially comedians's...actors; with significant voice-difference? We laughed, not in mimicing malice, but more of the art of voice...

North

Thanks North, Ananya, Anusheh.

Yes North mimicing is an art in itself. Do you still do it?

yes I do, at times Chaitali.... I try to mimic favorite singers... I am not that good, but it is great fun!!

North

Dear Chaitali

A very interesting piece of writing. I really like the way you've done this piece. I just wish people were more forthcoming with their comments. It's kind of selfish isn't it to enjoy a piece of writing but not share thoughts on it?

Anyway Voice is definitely another way we judge and discriminate against people. But not one we often think of so thanks

I agree with others. Great article.

You mention "Interestingly many of the sites of Hindu Goddess worship have their mythical origin in stories, which say that the holy sites are where either the vagina of the Devi fell while Shiva danced in remorse and anger with her corpse, or sites, which are symbolic of the menstruating, life-giving force of the Goddess, the feminine."

Could you please share what religious sites are based on each of these origins? Thank you.

Hi Raj

Some say there are 51 Shakti Piths in all, others say there are 64 and yet others believe that there are 108, but largely everyone agrees that there are twelve main Shakti Pith Tirth. Kamakhya temple in Assam is where the yoni is thought to have fallen. Kalighat Temple in Calcutta where one of her fingers fell and so on and so forth.

Some well known Shakti Piths are Bhagwati Mahakali Maha Shakti at Ujjan, Mata Kamakshi at Kanchi Puram, Bramaramba at Malaygiri, Kumarika at Kanya Kumari, Ambaji at Arasur-Gujarat, Mahalaxmi at Kohlapur, Devi Lalita at prayag, Vindhyavasini at Vindhya, Vishalakshi at Varansi, Mangalavati at Gaya and Sundari Bhavani at Bangal & Guhyakesari in Nepal.

I think if you search google you'll probably find a lot of information on this.

Dear Shagufta,

You write :
"I just wish people were more forthcoming with their comments. It's kind of selfish isn't it to enjoy a piece of writing but not share thoughts on it?"

We are constantly recreating All That Is in one way or the other. So in my opinion we are all mimicing each other constantly lol

That is why i am not able to get hurt by anybody. I do get hurt, but always only afterwards, when someone points me to some remark said to me of which i did not have the faintest idea that it was meant to hurt! Then it is up to me how i perceive it and react to it.

I truly am trying to radiate peace to my surroundings in the confidence that what i radiate i will no doubt receive back :)

But in that way i am always mimicing as i always give another back what he gives to me lol

And now let the HOMO LUDENS emerge.

Anusheh,

I didn't know about Shakti Piths and may I also say that it is very inspiring for me that as a muslim you are so knowledgeable on so many different religion and philosophy. I think it is very important for everyone to open their minds and learn about such things.

Good Morning Shagufta, Raj. Hi Mieke1

Dear Shagufta,

I hope that if not hear on the blog people will be atleast voicing their opinions in some other space in some form nor the other. Meanwhile it is a pleasure to hear your and the voices of others who are on this blog :)

Thanks Anusheh for giving Raj the info.

Dear Raj if you read about the architecture of the Hindu Temple you will find that the lay out of the temple itself is symbolic of the female vagina.

Whatever be the mythical origin of a site I don't understand why sections of the population are barred from worshipping. I just don't get it!

Dear Readers,
I think tarapith in West Bengal is also a very mportant spiritual destination and centre.Its known to be a very powerful abode for Ma tara Sadhana.I think it can also be a shakti pith,because many venerated tantriks still go there for the final ritual.

Hi Sayan

You're right. Tara pith is an important temple as well and it is also considered by some to be part of the Shakti Piths. It is also one of the ten most important Tantric Temples.

Hi anusheh,
Its indeed very inspiring,to converse with yu,sheerly because of your knowledge.So tell me something about he philosophy of islam as i can understand maybe itis the most misunderstood religion in the world.

Hi Shagufta and Sayan

As far as Islam and being a muslim goes well I have to say that even though Islam is my religion of birth, it has not been my religion of spiritual direction/guidance. As an aware, socially conscious and liberated woman I have lived my own personal and political struggle with Islam at many levels. Whether it was through my work on child sexual abuse, womens rights or just the personal spaces I sought and determined to be my right.

Sayan as far as the philosophy of Islam goes, its really not very different from other monotheistic religions....peace, brotherhood, social responsibility, justice, equality etc. However does the philosophy really matter when in modern perception it's become symbolic with violence, enemity, revenge, destruction and barbarism? I don't know. Doesn't the way a religion is practiced begin to hold far more importance than what it claims to preach?

I personally find (all) religions to be very problematic. For they are held ransom by the 'defenders of the faith', open to all kinds of retrograde interpretations and manipulated to suit all kinds of political, social and personal needs.

One of the biggest problems in my opinion of religions is that they try to mass market 'truth' and truth by its very nature is not a commodity for the masses, just for a select few.

Just some thoughts:-)

Hi everybody! Lots of interesting things going on on the blog. I have not been able to look at it for sometime. Been busy.

Chaitali first it was hair and now voice! Looks like nothing is gender free! Anyway recently I was firming up a collaboration deal between our organisatino and another organisation. I was communicating with the head of one of their departments. He had a very soft and gentel and youngish voice. I felt that it must be a young man but when I met him he was still a very soft and gentel man but not a young one.

Look at all the ads which mimic Sachin tendulkar's voice. One of the greatest batsman of the world is ridiculed because of his voice. I remember many people in Calcutta not liking Usha Uthups voice when she first began playback singing because it was heavier than the usual tweet-tweet nightingale voice.

Women's voices being suffocated even in temples.... no wonder this world is turning towards violence and hatred. For how can the prayers of those who discriminate others on earth be ever heard by the Divine world.

Sayan, Anusheh I also feel that there is a difference in philosophy and religion. What I have learnt from the blog is that Hindu philosophy is different from Hindu religion. The former is for all, all encompassing while in the latter human beings have created inequalities and groups claiming their rituals to be supreme.

Frankly when I read all the discrimination that goes on in the name of religion I ask myself don't these people have anything better to do. It's all ego and power display thats all.

Hi Anusheh,
I can understand that it requires a lot of grit and determination,to take a stand to be independent in circumstances like you traversed.So tell me are the injunctions of koran really written like burqas and all really written or is just the fancy of some religious demagogue.Again this concept of divorce by saying talaq three times,is it also written?

The veil or burqa Sayan is not mentioned in the Koran at all. The first and perhaps (if Im not mistaken) only reference to the veil is one which fell between two men, the prophet and one of his companions. And is metaphoric as a tale told of boundaries and respecting the privacy of the Master.

What has been interpreted by "devout" Muslims to be a divine order for the veil is infact a verse which was revealed to the prophet due to rape and sexual molestation of women being a huge menace in that society:

“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty……And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms….” (24:30,31).

In addition another verse was revealed later specific to the Prophets wives who were being targeted and harrased by certain segments of society.

“O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested” (33:59).

It is these two verses which are quoted as making the Burqa/Hijab mandatory for women.

Other than the gross misinterpretations that women are made victims of one of the biggest problems as I see it is that the Koran was revealed in a certain time frame for a certain kind of people. It is foolish to interpret it without keeping in mind its context and who it was addressing. It is for this very reason that a verse in the koran insists that the Koran be re-interpreted according to the times that we live in and be modified as thought suitable for those times. The only forward thinking community in the Muslims who do this are sometimes the Shias and the Ismailis do it regularly. That is why you will always find them to be much more progressive than the other sects.

However in my opinion not enough is done which is why Islam is in the sorry state it is in today.

Hope this made some sense:-)

As i have not read absolutely anything regarding islam,hence i was quite surprised by your letter.I thought chapters should be devoted for the cause of burqa.Regarding the divorce machanism of saying tallaq is it also koran sanctioned or again it was misintrepreted.I remember when i was virtually a toddler,there was supposed to be a case in india called the shah bano case.I was told about this case later by my grand mom who was into various womans organisations in west bengal. The Shah Bano case wa all about when someone argued against the islamic proceeding of divorce.It was supposed to create quita a stir then.

Here's something on divorce Sayan.

"The notion that a man is granted immediate divorce by saying "talaq" three times doesn't appear in the Koran. Divorce as described in the Koran requires three months of attempted reconciliation and arbitration before the couple can split. To divorce, the husband says talaq three times, but each of these talaqs must be separated by a month, and the first two are always revocable. Thus, in most Muslim countries, even the utterance of "talaq, talaq, talaq" is legally counted as a single renunciation that must be confirmed a month later and again a month after that.
Triple talaq first entered Islamic law when Umar, the second Caliph of Sunni Islam, a successor to the Prophet, learned that some husbands were using the threat of divorce as leverage against their wives. The caliph responded in 637 A.D. by making the triple talaq a valid, instant divorce. Doing so was his way of declaring, "Don't say it if you don't mean it." Shia Muslims and some Sunni sects hold this to be the caliph's personal opinion, an innovation on the Koran made by Umar without proper consensus, and thus invalid. Ali, who was the fourth caliph of Sunni Islam and the first Shia imam, disagreed with Umar's decision at the time, as did other leading Sahaba, or companions of the Prophet."

In fact the Koranic ayats are very fair towards women laying down all kinds of injunctions like their dowries if any must be returned to them upon divorce, that men must treat them with kindness, that they must not be thrown out of their homes however if they want to leave then men must not stop them. That men must not take any form of revenge against them, that they must provide them with alimony, that if a woman is pregnant she is not to be divorced until she has delivered her child and so on and so forth. Quite enlightened really for the times the Koran was revealed in.

Thank you anusheh, for a delightful commentary of koranic injunctions,another question is what exactly is the difference between the shias and sunnis.In one of your previous letters you have mentioned about one ismaili,what is that?is it also a subgroup among muslims.What i fail to understand is when muslims,who dont believe in idol worship,can have so many sects or subsects.Furthermore among christians also there are subgroups like catholic,protestant,but here though both of them follows the same bible,one follows the old testament,the other follows the new one.

Dear Sayan

If you really want to understand the religion better may I recommend an excellent book to you called "The Vision of Islam" by William Chittick. I haven't read a better book on the topic. I think you will enjoy it very much and it will answer your questions much more comprehensively than I can. It's a very readable book from one of the foremost Islamic scholars.
I've seen it in india so you shouldnt have a problem getting it.

Hi Chaitali,
Am new to the site and found your piece quite interesting.Come to think of it even the "noises" one makes seem gender specific.e.g. the way a woman is "taught" to sneeze in public ,the aahchoo versus an aaaaahchhhooo. I agree that once one starts thinking about it , its a whole world of the politics of voice . Women across professions, for e.g. the voice of a woman politician versus a woman model and its acceptability and our expectation .
Across cultures , the singsong of the french , the australian drawl , the british accent , they all seem to characterise a nation and in many ways are taken to be representative. A whole lot of layers to peel off from the "sounds" of the topic!Hope to see more.

should have signed off as ...hope to hear more!
couldnt resist coming back to say that.

Dear Kavita,

Welcome to the blog!

This thing that you said about Women models is very true. I remember when Madhu Sapre was in her modelling career many people used to comment 'wait till she opens her mouth.' Sapre had a very heavy or what one may call a throaty voice. Beauty paegents these days have 'experts' who teach the contestants how to modulate their voice.

Like sneezing women are also told how to laugh. Women can't do the belly laugh or the loud open mouth laugh (except for in laughing exercises in the parks). Many women even today instinctly put a hand on their mouth when they want to laugh, thereby dulling the sounds of their laughter.

Rabindranath Tagore who gave words to thousands of songs which are sung by many people especially in Bengal never sang his songs himself except for in a few ocasions. reasons his voice was not 'appropriate' to singing. But he became a great man nonetheless.

Dear readers,
Recently there has been a huge ruckus,over the preponderance of blogs in tge internet on the aftermath of mumbai blasts,so much so that the government is thinking on putting some restrictions,to these blogs.they think that terroristsare using this blogs to transfer informartion.So they are planning to censor these blogs.Your comments will be duly appreciated.

Dear Sayan,

Best you have a look at Intentblog.com where several posters (amongst others the thread of Gotham Chopra) write about a letter from the Indian Government, in which is stated that it will not come that far :)

Oh yes, quite, quite...I would say if I was a "genteel lady". The art of 'prattling' especially seems to be definite hook when it comes to the male species. I often wondered how normally intelligent men could be dumb enough to fall for such ploys but this post gives it a whole new perspective. We are after all used to associating certain sounds and sights together and it isn't that easy to shake off impressions learned from childhood I suppose.