hi anusheh, good post.

seems unknown to me i have been the highest tantric ever since i had what i call my first experience of onenes to be followed by almost eight years of life of total abandon!

i think the following paragraph which i wrote some time obviously in an especially exalted mood also sums up this very tantric stage in a way:

"man is capable of having the last laugh! beyond good and evil, beyond the notions of divine/undivine, materialism/spiritualism lies his fulfillment. a master is one who is neither an atheist nor yet a theist, neither this nor that but he himelf..."

indeed when one sees the same life force and even beyond, the same life process, going on in the non-living things as in the living that one sees the whole scheme of things as beyond infamy and mystique - that is, as it really is...and not only tantra...

Dear Anusheh,

lovely post.

I have always been mystified and enchanted by tantra from what I read of it in books.

It always appeared to me as a secret science. My spiritual sorties over the years have yearned for practising tantra some day.

What is mysterious and unknown is very tempting to the human mind. In meditation we are asked to dive deep into ourselves....pranayama means something with the breath....bhakthi has to do with devotion...but tantra...well the mystery around it remains...
eagerly await your next article.

lots of love
hi harb...love to you.

Hi Harb and Aachi

Thanks. I really don't see Tantra as a practice which exists outside of either organised religion or Vedant, Sufism etc. The science of Tantra is such that at some point the serious seeker has to come across it no matter what path they think they are on.

For example, to reach the state of oneness all duality (sacred and profane) has to be dropped. Yoga is part of Islam as well. The namaaz postures are all based on yoga. Pranayam is very central in sufi practices. Bhakti is a very important part of Tantra as all seekers on this path must learn first and foremost to love the Divine Shakti. And so on and so forth.

Therefore dear Aachi you may just find that what you practice as spirituality already has a healthy dose of Tantra in it.

Lots of love to you both

Hi Harb

I would like to add to your point
"that is, as it really is...and not only tantra..." that the state you refer to here 'as it really is' is an absolute Unity Consciousness state which is known by the fewest of the few and the final Spirit Peak. So the question is not that it is Tantric or that Tantra is the only way, but that Tantra is the speediest, complete and sure-shot way to get there. To which I would also add that it is for the modern age for man has shed many of the stifling bonds of morality/sacred/profane and a kind of individuation has emerged in these times which is unique. Thus Tantra is really a fitting path for the modern mind.

Having said that it is CRITICAL to add that it is for the rare few for it requires a rare courage and ability which makes the adept eligible or else it can be destructive in its impact. Most do not understand this fine line, worse they have ascribed all kinds of crap to Tantra and that itself makes the Truth and the Path elusive.

For instance whenever you refer to your years of 'abandon' you do not add that given that they followed the 'energy explosion" of expansion they took on new meaning within that time/space more as an expereince of purging/completing/releasing all blocked selves (possibly from the moral abstinenece) world of the Sant Ji, and hence became an important next stage. Such a state cannot be offered as an example to others willy nilly for without the paradigm of self-realization as its precursor its a sure-shot road to depravity. So in your case it served its end naturally and moved you to your next phase.

Tantra is the only science which clarifies these stages and instructs their chronology and practice. It therefore is the only path which systematically clenases the root sleves at a fast forward pace ensuring that the being goes into a 'oneness' experience and then begins to operate naturally from the heart chakra onwards for his/her next phase.

hi aachi, anusheh!

jasjit, where according to you will 'self enquiry' fit into the picture, that is, vis-a-vis tantra? perhaps tantra is a consolidated name given to all the ways/phases from beginning to end while self enquiry is only for a particular phase? atually the question arises as i do not really know anything about tantra lol except perhaps the obvious 'crap'.

and of course you are right that such a state as mine cannot be offered to others willy nilly...perhaps which is why SOT did not choose to make me a guru/master of any kind to be followed. and it served me well as well...as perhaps because of this i could have my cake and eat it too so to say in my years of gay abandon lol.

moreover, i refer to my years of abandon in talking to only a few people like you who know my energy explosion experience by heart by now lol. and even if i refer to it sometimes in the open, i know not many can follow it by just reading from me...

Harb

Self-enquiry should be the precursor to anything no? So I don't think it belongs anywhere specific than in man's desire to awaken. Tantra is a matrix of premises, tools and stages that's all. What is fascinating is that actual Tantra has absoltely nothing to do with its world-wide image and perception.

So blessed are those who can have their cake and eat it too. :)

Dear Anusheh,

This is very interesting. I did not know that Yoga, pranayam also came under Tantra. Tantra has always been shown as a practice which people undertake to gain some 'magical' powers that can be used to attain selfish and personal gains. It's these kind of misrepresentations that have brought the practice a bad name.

Waiting to read about the three schools in Tantra.

Jasjit, i was talking of what ramana maharshi is famous for - asking yourself the question "who am i?".

they say it is not for all, it is very difficult. so it must be coming after man has aready evolved to some extent, may be through what are called karma and bhagti stages, as it is also identified with jnana stage.

of course, taking the meaning of the phrase 'self-enquiry' in isolation what you say will also be true.

up to a certain stage our focus is on the other (as in childhood and youth). then we find that the other is actually not separate from us, but depends upon our own thoughts/perception, on ourselves. even science reached here in what is called quantum theory when it said that beyond a certain depth things depend upon our own perception.

so naturally beyond this stage, when everything depends upon our own perception, our own "i", we would rather have to explore ourselves further, or ask "who am I then?" than focus on the other. this is self-enquiry i am referring to.

i dont doubt though that if tantra is a complete system of reaching the unity consciousness, it must have taken care of this stage as well in some way. i in fact wanted to know this. perhaps it will be clear with anusheh's next post.

btw, what is jantra and mantra? is it body and mind or related to these aspects of our beings in some way? with tantra relating to soul or to ourselves as a whole?? may be...

Hi Harb

I think even the desire to focus on the question 'who am I?' in any sustainable way can only happen when certain matters like karma and bhakti have prepared/refined the consciousness to seek an answer. Before that even as the nature of our essence pushes through intermittently to wonder, we rarely make it a critical enquiry. And until that happens there is nearly no gain to be made through this enquiry. Almost like Aachi's 'Kithey Javaan Aithon' requires a motionlessness of sorts which allows one to at least source the depth of the feeling. In most cases even when the question presses on, people rush off into yet another direction, unable to face its piercing intent. So I guess many stages have to be done away with before a question like that can serve as a catalyst and unlock a whole doorway of discovery and intention.

Tantra is just another Path. It can and does include bhakti(in the form of say mantra) karma and of course gnana. Like the four yogas mentioned in the Vedas (karma, bhakti, gnana, raja) Tantra in fact is a path which emobodies all four. The problem is that people have no idea what it really entails and largely attribute sexual licence, freaky practices and strange powers to it. All infamy indeed and kept that way too for so long, because it acted as a veil to protect it both from voyeurs and charlatans. Man's enquiry and mental abilities have only now emerged to a level where they can address the esotercisim and mystery of tantra without losing sight of its essence.

Mantra then is the consolidated sound energy collated to focus and invoke certain aspects of higher consciousness, largely through the pantheon of deities which in this case symbolize the mirroring of inherent powers of man. Yantras are scientific precision instruments of contemplation which reflect the macro within the microcosm. Again assembled to act as energy meridians of intent, they help enforce the fields of contemplation or sadhna.

The central point is, that Tantra more than anyhing else uses purely the energy principle of creation as its essence. Unfortunately few are able to translate the jargon into the simple enrgy codes that they are. This is why there is both mystery and confusion.

Dunno if I've confused the matter some more!!!
:)

jasjit, no there is no confusion. the achieving of unity consciousness to some extent is like achieving sexual union on a comparatively concrete scale and love union on a subtle. just imagine, if you have acheived any of them, if discussion of path through which you reached there has any possibility of creating confusion. or even beyond that, if the path is really that important, for all paths, nay whatever you do, every stirrng of every atom within you, is already pushing you towards that destination on their own, that is, despite you.

as richard dawkins of the selfish gene fame says and quoted by me in my book: "the evolution happens, willy nilly, in spite of our efforts to prevent it happening...". believe it or not, our efforts actually end up trying to keep the status quo. if it were not so more people would have got enlightenment through teachers rather than on their own.

anyway, even then coming down to the understandin/explanation of various paths, the whole confusion is because anything can be viewed/explained from two sides - call it yin/yang side, day/night side, west/east side, science/mysticism side, duality/onness side.

the game of life, like day and night is composed of both. after the first half the day part goes latent in the night part and after the second half the night part goes latent in the day part. same goes for body/mind, yin/yang, west/east, scence/mysticism, rational/intuitive.

now, that does not mean that 'day' has really ended after the first half, or after 12 hours, and the same we can say of night.

normally we try to understand/explain the game of life in terms o the day, yin, duality, rationality, science etc for the first half or first two phases and in terms of the night, yang, mind, myticism, east for the last two phases, the night phases when the bodies or all that which is apparently visible goes to the background.

but as actually the day part also goes throughout the whole 24 hours, we can also continue understanding/explaining it in terms of this for the last two parts as well. that is, when normally we would slowly enter the phase from which we would begin to understand things rather from the perspective of no-duality, self-reference, in terms of self-enquiry, in other words. i think tantra comes to the fore for these last two phases, that is, after the beginning of the night or night part, after or simultaneous as, in fact, the two elements of male and female have had sexual union. no wonder tantra begins with or gets linked up with sex and no wonder again, thanks that it start with dark part, where bodes though there are not that visibsible it has acquired all those frightening (mis)conceptions.

Harb

There are elements in your perspective I understand and agree with. However there's quite a bit I'm confused by especially the last paragraph so I don't know what to make of it.

I think concepts like the selfish gene theory are good to explain things as the 'long run' but I'm not sure that the point of 'more people would have got enlightenment through teachers rather than on their own' can be viewed as a linear truth. Within the continum of evolution one's consciousness has already traversed many Masters, teachings, paths and states in different lifetimes until it reaches a stage where it will naturally evolve to its own enlightenment. Only because technically no one can take you there, only because the final stage is only YOU, all else even the Master is an illusion/mirror of you.

But one does need to be careful of airing generalizations because the audience could be functioning from such different levels. IMO

You are right, it is too bad that Tantric practices have been devalued to the level of depravity by many. Human Sexuality contains both an uplifting, spiritual side and a dark, decadent side.

It really feels bad to see that such a potent and ancient thing as tantra is defamed with mundane pursuits like sex,money etc.Tantra is a very powrful tool to keep oneself aligned spiritually in todays stress filled times.I had seen some amazing people who rightly never came before the public and theirbrilliant predictions.

Tantra and yoga are different in one way from each other and that makes a big difference.Yoga says do not go to woman and conserve your semen and Tantra says go to woman and conserve your semen.This makes Tantra practical and yoga theoretical.