"Tantra is about maximizing the tools and resources that nature has already provided us with, to be happy and successful." A Grand Path IMO. But if this is true then how and why did Tantra get associated with so much voodoo and malpractice? I mean that is what one generally hears about. This wholesome flexible wisdom that you have put down is hardly anyone's notion of tantra. Why?

Informative and well-written articles. Thanx

Anusheh

When you say about the 3rd school Samya 'one with Her' what do you mean? Does Tantra think the Supreme Power to be only feamle? Also what is a yantra and how is it different from a mantra?

I also would like to hear the answers to Ananya's questions because I agree with her.

Anusheh thanks for telling us about the 3 schools. I think it was clever of you to first take us through the notion behind Tantra and then to the three schools. Made it easier to understand what the teachings of the school are about.

Hey Ananya, Shagufta- 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.' I think the answer lies there. How much do we know of Tantra. The only thing that we get to hear about it is the sex part. And that is exactly what Anusheh has been trying to tell us here that TANTRA IS NOT JUST ABOUT SEX AND PEOPLE HAVING SEX.

Because of all the hush hush about sex that we carry about in our heads we have painted a picture of Tantra (which does not shy away from sex) as a practice based merely on sex. And those with a sick mind have usurped Tantra as a means to achieve their sexual desires and fantasies.

The real knowledge that Tantra holds is lost in all the drive towards repressing anything to do with the sexual. That is why I suppose people take out the part in Tantra which speaks of the importance of the sexual and distort it and give it a bad name.

It's like how in Europe and even now in many parts of backward India and probably in other countries too women who stepped out of their traditional roles were branded as witches and stories about their magical powers were made up to create fear among people. These women were literally hunted and burned alive.

These are my thoughts :)

PS: I meant in early Europe...

Hey Annie

I wasn't just referring to the sex aspect. there are so many stories of Tantrix performing weird sacrifice rituals, like a story in TOI sometime ago that in Bihar somewhere a tantric convinced a woman who was childless to kidnap a child and he sacrificed it in a Kali temple so that she would become pregnant. these kind of horror stories are always connected to Tantrix IMO. So why is Tantra practice about this and who teaches them all this voodoo stuff?

Hi Ananya,

You're right when you say that there is also a lot of misuse of Tantric teachings. In my mind it's simple really. Anything can be misused if your intention is not pure towards it. Tantra is no different. For example many people begin to follow spiritual paths not because they are interested in bringing about change within themselves but only so that they can appear 'holy' and begin to wield a new power over people with that new garb. Just as that is not spirituality what you are referring to is not Tantra either.

Hope that makes sense:-)

Hi Shagufta

No, Tantra is a holistic path so it doesnt just speak about Shakti or the divine feminine. It's entire philosophy is based on how the universe is made up of both masculine and feminine energies. However according to Tantra the perfect masculine can only be achieved through the perfect feminine and not before that. Because she is creation and wisdom and Shiva simply the silent actor who takes her powers and manifests them through thought and action in this world.

Both are essential but the feminine is the door to the divine. Ultimately the two must unite for spiritual freedom or moksha.

Hi Annie...you're dot on:-)Thanks

Ananya

To add to Anusheh's explanation, I would say that Tantra, especially of the Kaula school uses the power of mantra as energy practices. A plethora of practices make the disciple adept at tapping into various energy fields and performing certain 'feats' which appear miraculous to others but are in fact just precise tools of decoding energy fields and manifesting 'results' for the naked eye. These are also called powers and 'siddhis'. Unfortunately the shallow who seek power through these practices, then stop here and instead enter the world of commerce and manipulation. They then use the name of Tantra to establish their credentials, dupe needy people and misuse their powers. That is how they give Tantra a bad name. In fact they are not Tantrics but cheap tricksters and if at any point they possesed real powers they lose them quickly and instead enter the dark realm.

True Masters in fact never engage in cheap miracles and do not display their 'siddhis'.

Shagufta

A Yantra is geometric imprint of the energy matrix which rules a certain cosmic principle. For instance, the Ten Mahavidyas are all represented by specific yantras whose basis is a triangle, a central dot, often an eight petalled lotus. The Sri Yantra with a number of triangles acts as the supreme Yantra of all ten. The Yantra then reflects the macrocosm in the micro i.e the cosmos as contained within the being and allows for concentrated activation of invoking certain powers of the universe within you. Each Goddess symbolises certain powers and her yantra helps you invoke them through contemplation on her exact meridian field.
Hope this helps!

Thanks for the explanation Jasjit. So do you think that many more people are drawn to Tantra because they feel they can get powers and control over others?

Also how does one use a Yantra? Or rather how does it help a person who is spiritual?

Dear anusheh,
Thank you for your research ontantra but i think the discussion was not that complete.There was no discussion regarding bamacharya,kulacharya,etc,neither on the left hand or right hand tantra,and also on the shiva sakti union.I will want the discussion to be continued.

Hi Sayan

If you click on the religion and mythology category on the right side you will find my other two articles on Tantra, part one and part two. Have a read and if you want to discuss something go right ahead:-)

sorry anusheh indeed for a general blog your article was excellent but as this is one of my favourite topics in life as i have met some reverred tantriks in my life,the miracle of their predictions,by just knowing ones name astonished me to that extent that knowing tantra and initiating myself in that philosophy,maybe has become one of my goals in life.

Hi Sayan

No no please don't say sorry. I thought maybe you hadn't read the other parts of the article. But I completely agree with you Sayan. Tantra is a vast sea of knowledge and experience and I havent even touched upon a fraction of it here. Since you are interested in it may I recommend a book to you called Yogini. It is authored by Shambhavi Lorain Chopra. Her personal experiences as well as insights into Tantra. It's published by Wisdom Tree India and is available in bookshops. I think you shall enjoy reading it.

In the meanwhile I'd love to hear more about your own experiences if you feel comfortable sharing them.

love

Dear Anusheh,
Thanks for the encouragement.
A hypothesis and the principles derived out of it make the rock bottom of any systemized knowledge. When the same principle is ascertained as law, it is rendered the form of pure science. Now it is clear that science is the knowledge brought under general principles through minute analysis and experimentation.
Tantra is an eminent science having thousands of principles. In fact, it is the system of our life and a science of practice and practical knowledge. Through Tantra, we can attain superb powers by attracting and deriving the divine faculties pervading the entire cosmos. The aspirant of Tantra makes his internal capacity sharp and intensely forceful just like a magnet. This science is the process of activating the various dormant vital glands and Chakras of the astral form, present inside the human body. It makes us aware of the truth that a person can get liberation from his own subjugation, can achieve immense power and even with the physical body present, can free himself from his body and expands his faculties infinitely.
Each and every element of the nature is associated with the other. Every action has a definite basis and for that action, there also exists an equal and opposite reaction. This uninterrupted succession of atomic process is going on in our atmosphere. Formation of water vapors, rain from the clouds due to attraction between positively and negatively charged atoms, storms, tempest and earthquakes, all are interrelated to each other. It is not the will or desire of the empirical individual that moves the senses towards their objects. He derives this power from the Spanda principle - the dynamism of Siva.
Tantra is the process of intensification of our peculiar inner potentialities so that we can command this atomic arrangement which in other words is known as 'Siddhi'. The flow of energy is going on ceaselessly in the environment and when your own inner energy becomes capable of influencing the external ones, nothing will remain impossible for you an
It is not the will or desire of the empirical individual that moves the senses towards their objects. He derives this power from the Spanda principle - the dynamism of Siva.d this is the science of Tantra in which the aspirant's wish is first and foremost.
Fear of Tantra is baseless
The notions of an ordinary person about Tantra are not worthy to mention as this science of power has been misused very much. Those who are quite conversant with Tantra, by awakening their internal cosmic faculties, acquire knowledge to progress ahead and by activating the internal Chakras become ultimately successful in attaining Self realisation and thereby Supreme Bliss, whereas the imperfect Tantriks focus their attention towards the leftist part which hitherto has been utilized by such Tantriks in causing pain and harm to others and in achieving sensual enjoyment. Thus they involve themselves in a wrong direction. Although they can cause damage to the common men, yet eventually such Tantriks undergo severe sufferings and their lives get highly miserable.
This is human nature that every person focuses his attention first on the bad aspect of any subject and not on the virtuous one. This attitude proves harmful to them. As I have said earlier that Tantra is a process of activating internal cosmic faculties of the invisible world and making them favourable for oneself. During this process, that vigorous energy at first affects the person who is trying to overpower it and if at that time the aspirant does not get frightened, the divine energy itself behaves like a slave and then performs all the miraculous deeds at the will of the aspirant. To explain further I am citing an illustration- If you go outside during winter without wearing woollen clothes, what will happen? The frozen particles of cold wave will fall violently upon you and you will fall sick. But in case you are totally prepared- you have a healthy physique covered with woollen clothes, cold cannot affect you in any way and you will proceed ahead without any fear. The same is the case with Tantra. If you are not afraid, have the required equipment and also a sound knowledge then Tantra is the easiest way for you to acquire the divine powers.
To emerge successful in Tantra, fearlessness as well as elevation of inner consciousness are absolutely essential because in this Sadhana, the power is to be evolved from within.
Confidentiality in Tantra
In our ancient scriptures, there is great emphasis on the fact that the real Tantra should be kept confidential. What is the reason behind this secrecy? If this science has got usefulness, it should be popularized and propagated everywhere, every person should have its knowledge. But this is not the case. What is the reason behind it?
The real Tantra and its secrets were passed on verbally by the competent Guru to his disciples only. The disciples memorized that science and also got realization of 'Siddhi' but the Guru got his disciples to promise that this knowledge would be granted to only those who really deserved it. So they had this relevant argument behind their secrecy. As I have written above that every action has equal and opposite reaction. For example if you disturb anyone - tease a dog, bull or snake, it will certainly attack you. You should have strength to fight them and ultimately bring them under your control. The same is true for Tantra. If a suspicious, weak and fearful person starts Tantra Sadhna, he on experiencing some distress or crisis, generally leaves it midway and thus puts himself in danger due to reversible reaction of the Sadhna because at that moment the inner energy of the aspirant is feeble and so is easily overpowered by the external forces. This is the reason why only a competent Guru is capable to impart the knowledge of Tantra. A Guru minutely and completely analyses the disciple and on getting assured that his disciple would never misuse that power, he starts teaching Tantra Sadhna. Immediately after getting success, the aspirant becomes very much energetic and his vigorous activities must be utilised for public welfare as well as for Self Realisation and not for causing harm to others.
Due to the afore mentioned reasons, the methods of Tantra Sadhnas have been written incompletely, or in symbols and one, who performs Sadhna according to what is written in scriptures can never be successful as the complete knowledge can be attained only through the guidance of a Guru.
How Tantra became a taboo
What then happened in between that has made Tantra a taboo today ?
Perusal of the past reveals that after Gorakhnath pseudo gurus like Bhayanand started the misuse of Tantra and thus got introduced vile practices like meat eating, sex and money spinning into the system. These false Tantriks not just used these rather expounded that without them success is impossible in field of Tantra. These unconscientiously one's even stooped so low as to resort to drinking, rape and swindling.
It was then but natural for the common man to keep distance from such practices who were unfortunately more in number than real masters of Tantra. Soon society began to shun Tantra and a belief was generated that Tantra itself is a vile practice and has no useful applications in life.
But the problem was not with Tantra rather with the charlatans who used Tantra as an excuse to give vent to their beastly cravings. In fact Tantra is a science that can instill totality in life. A question may arise that when there are Mantras to procure divine blessings why do we need Tantra?
Wise and capable persons do not come to their conclusions in a moment, but only after a careful analysis of any thing. When the left wing of Tantra got predominant and those, who were keen to do these leftist Sadhnas for their petty and selfish ends, did not get success, they turned into big critics of Tantra and only those persons created misconceptions about Tantra.
Apart from this, the British education and Moghal's culture had an attack on the fundamental elements of Indian society i.e. religious rites, Mantra, Tantra etc. They were aware of the fact that this great science of Vedas, Upanishads and Mantras was responsible for the highly elevated Indian culture, so they thought that if they circulated misconceptions against this science, the Indian people would spontaneously become slaves and unfortunately they succeeded in their evil mission. It should be remembered that psychological subjugation is more dangerous than physical one and this was the mental dependence which caused our deterioration from the heights of prosperity.
The objective of 'Mantra Tantra Yantra Vigyan' is to present the proper and complete knowledge of these occult sciences in simplest form before the people so that they themselves verify it and emerge successful in life through it's use. Only then this science will flourish and we will get deliverance from mental over subjugation and will also regain our self respect and an exalted spiritual stature.

The Real Benefits of Tantra
Tantra is basically the source of energy and if you master this science, you can easily conquer your materialistic obstacles, other persons can be influenced by you and their activities can be channelised according to your own will. The harmful effects of planets, influences of an evil eye and evil spirits can be removed. It is also helpful as a remedy of mental tension, unbearable pain and other physical and psychological ailments. The scope of Tantra is very wide including Vashikaran, Maran, Ucchattan, Hypnotism, Divine Vision etc., which in many ways are beneficial in modern life.
In fact, Tantra leads to the path of self surrender and it pertains to all the aspects of physical and Para psychological life. Life, a divine gift bestowed upon by the Almighty can be fully purposeful by regenerating one's inner creative faculties and giving 'Karma', a predominant role in our lives and this is the genesis of life's purposefulness and success.
An unchallenged master of Tantra himself, Gurudev's Sadhana discourses often pivoted on this science and he once said:
"One who fears Tantra cannot be a human; and a Sadhak he never can be. In the times of Guru Gorakhnath Tantra was a much respected science popular in all stratas of society for it has in it solutions to all problems of life.
Actually Mantra is a prayer, it is a request put to the concerned deity to help one. But it is not necessary that the deity shall be moved by one's plea. On the other hand if one uses Tantra one could compel the divine power to help. Tantra in fact is a guarantee that the concerned deity shall without fail have to shower its blessings.
A prayer may fail to touch the heart of the deity but Tantra forces it to grant the desired boon. The Sadhanas in Tantra and Mantra methods might appear similar yet Tantra is a thousand fold more powerful and unfailing.
Tantra gains all the more significance in the present times when every person has no spare time on hands. One cannot be expected to devote several hours each day to long Sadhana procedures. Today every one wishes for instant success and Tantra sure can bring it ; for Tantra means performing a Sadhana by a special meticulous procedure. Nothing is left to chance and all aspects are taken care of, so that success is sure and instant.

Still if due to human weakness some imperfection creeps into the Sadhana or Mantra chanting there are no negative results as is often (wrongly) believed by most people. Only result shall be that the desired wish shall not be fulfilled, but then one could try again.

Tantra is a jewel of the Sadhana world that can solve quickly and effectively all problems of human life like poverty, misery, unhappy married life, being childless, jobless, failure in business or health and so on. To resort to Tantra means adopting a sure way to success.

Dear Sayan

Firstly let me tell you how heartening it is to find and read someone who is so conversant and deeply engaged in understaning Tantra. I am also moved by the time you have spent to share your knowledge at such length. Thank You. Usually one finds people are squeamish and/or dismissive of it as some voodoo science which is destructive rather than constructive.

However from my humble experiences I would just like to add a few things to what you have said. IMO the crux of Tantra is not really to solve human miseries as pointed out in your last paragraph. Its core is that it awards you the highest pinnacle of unlocking the esoteric principles which reign in the material and ethereal plane. The powers as you call them are just an understanding of the key principles which cause/alleviate suffering and in one's 'walking with mindfulness' with that understanding, all suffering transforms to well-being.

The problem is that too many people begin to focus on the 'powers' over destiny, others , material benefits that they think Tantra provides. Any such desire in effect weakens the height of you reach. For even though this Path can only be followed under strict guidance of a genuine Master after a certain point you begin to carve the subtle roads you take. Nearly 75 per cent of followers therefore (IMO) fall by a far lower wayside because the fascination with the powers bgeins to define their understanding of the infinite. This is a crucial point.

In fact the ultimate Path needs to use Tantra to cleanse karmas, unlock power centres and catapult a person to a purer consciousness field and then Zen must take over and complete the journey into nothingness.

The other point I wish to add is that Tantra is called the left-handed Path for a very good reason. Its primary invocation centre is the Goddess energy within us, therefore our Yin side and hence requires intense purification and opening of the heart. For many men especially the 'power' stages of Taantra help in maintaining the mind and its ego at some level. this is where the impurities and corruption if you will of the Path set in. Only a complete surrender to the Goddess self ensures a quantum leap beyond the mind into the infinity of the heart. Once again few undesrtand and achieve this to its fullest, especilly men. That is why the traditional/mystery schools of Tantra have only female masters and the lineage is preserved to date by Women Masters. That you hardly hear nd know of them (for they are incognito and take few disciples)is in itself a sign of the fact that the real Tantra is neither fully known nor understood.

I would like to take the liberty of suggesting two books which you will find interesting. One is recent and availble in Indian stores called 'Yogini' by Shmbhavi Lorraine Chopra and the other maybe difficult to get but is an extraordinary read: 'The Tantric Quest' by Daniel Odier. He has a website too which you could check out.

Finally I agree with you totally that Tantra is the most ideal path for the modern times/mind for many many reasons to copious to mention here. Perhaps you can check out my pieces under Sound of Running Water on our website www dot ifsha dot org. They are an attempt to articulate the core of Tantra without really mentioning it.

Sorry I took the liberty of answering your post to Anusheh :)
Much Love

Dear jasjit,
THanks for your view point.It was indeed very enlightening.You are indeed true that true tantrik masters are indeed very rare,and the tantra sadhaks we come about in our life are maybe not of that evolved category.Normal people generally get fascinated by the correct predictions about their life,they get astonished like i was but seeing from the tantra perspective,it may not be a sign of spirirtual advancement.But the fact still remains that in todays scientific world,in the age of quantum mechjanics,still these things hold true.What amazes me is the fact that how can a personjust by knowing your name can come out with everything about your life?is it not anything less than miracle, Or science has not yet evolved to that extent by which it can explain these things.Those two books that you have mentioned must be good but my own opinion is western view is seldom complete in these subjects.If you can you can go through any book by anil mukherjee or gopinath kabiraj,but i think they are written in bengali so if you have a bengali friend you can always have it translated.And to initiate anybody in the world of spirituality,please give him a copy of paramhansa yoganandas autobiography of a yogi.So far for today,i will definitely discuss this issue with you again,but rarely people find knowledggable people like you in this area.

Dear Sayan

Actually yogini is written by an Indian woman and Tantric Quest though written by a foriegnor is about his journey with an Indian Tantrik master...a woman by the name of Lalitha Devi. Like you I too find most westerners other than David Frawley whose name instantly comes to mind..are unable to comprehend the complexities of Tantra perhaps because they are so far removed from the culture of this land mass.

You wont be dissapointed with these books:-) Autobiiography of a yogi indeed remains to be a favourite!!

Dear anusheh,
Have you read "search for eternity".The book is by the same author Paramhansa Yogananda.Anyway you cannot imagine how heartening it is know that educated upwardly mobile people like you are still interested in ancient indian heritage like tantra.I am actually doing my phd from one of the best b-schools of india,all my friends literally scoff at this type of things.I strongly suggest that you get hold of books by gopinath kobiraj or anil mukherhee you can understand this even better.Anyway why dont you share your experiences in ocult sciences in this blog,then we can all contribute.

Hi Sayan

No I haven't read Search for eternity and I'm definitely going to try and get english versions of the books you have mentioned. Ditto on the heartwarming bit:-) I am enjoying our conversations. Okay maybe I'll put together a piece on some of my experiences in a couple of days. In the meanwhile it would be great to hear more from you.

love

Dear anusheh,

Thanks for the encouragement,you know in life you come across some incidents where you cannot predict anything.One day in calcutta My friend was waiting In the metro rail station,he was discussing these supernatural things with his friend.My friend at that time was a hard core rationalist,and was speaking against the ocult and all,when all of a sudden a man came and saidsome thing about my friends life,which was more or less accurate.My friend was stunned.He even predicted his wifes name but as my friend is still a bachelor,thus that remains to be seen whether that holds good or not. This wa the beginning of our initiation with this occult sciences,as necromancy is niothing but an occult form of mind reading.

p.s-Also go through the book conversations with the god.

Hi Sayan

Sorry for delay in responding. Got a little busy and then power cuts have been driving us crazy as well.

That was an interesting story you shared. Sometimes all we're looking for is just some proof that there is something else much larger than us. That is why I guess Tantra insists that you experience the fulfillment of a desire through it very early on so that you are convinced about its effectiveness.

Hi anusheh,

Hallo life is just going on with heavy rains here in mumbai.I think more than the perception to understand that theres something bigger than life its the commonsense that comes through introspection that does everything that happens in our life,is actually created by us,because if we care to delve a little bit deeply into this we will understand that 90% of the success,the failures that a person undrgoes in life does so because of the conditions under which that person is born.I mean if you were born in some other family,maybe youwould have been married off,maybe you would not have been educated i mean anything could have happened.Why wre we born in that particular family with those conditions,which in turn leads easy access to every thing material.Leave alone this even in the aspect of marriage do we really determine whom we are to stay with in our lives,like you may come across n number of Eligible boys/girls in our life why is that we get attracted to 1 or 2.If you care to think about your life only you will find that there are instances where life had its sett plans for yu.Keep on thinking.

Hi Sayan

It's really hot and clammy here and on top of that we're having hours of load shedding. There the electricity just went off as I began this post!!

I agree with you that we are the center of our own universe. There is a fascinating book I read once on the afterlife. I cant remember who it was by but it basically spoke about how we create our reality not only on earth but also in the after life. You know things like if you were really attached to food you would have it in the afterlife and so on and so forth. It makes perfect sense to me.

As for being born into a certain kind of family. Completely, your family is just your most intense karmic relationships. I see it like this that until you live a life of unawareness you are simply living at the level of karma. So all interactions, experiences etc. are karmically predestined for you. However as you bring awareness into your being the chains of karma begin to loose their hold over you and you can begin to direct your destiny.

Dear Anusheh,
What you have commented about self awareness and creating ones own destiny was exactly written in paramhansa yoganandas autobiography of a yogi,but question remains as to where the awarenesss that you are talking about is merely reminding oneself,that you are your own creator or you have to progress a little bit spiritually to understand its meaning.Because in your life you will see many people trying very hard to go somewhere in life in absolute futility.So maybe self awareness is not hat easy as we think of.

just as no branch, fig, leaf, flower, fruit creates its own destiny on a tree but only furthers th destiny/evolution of the whole tree, similarly no person creates his/her own destiny in the universe. if it were so, ramakrishana parmahansa would not have died of cancer, nor for that matter ramana maharshi, j.krishnamurti, nor socrates would have died by drinking hemlock, nor jesus on cross. if it were so many would have opted to choose to live for ever and the world by now would be full of such people. rather the world would have been converted into a heaven since long past.

our socalled free choices/efforts/destiny creating actions are like the work of arjuna (who is really none else but representing us individuals) while the destiny is in the hands of krishana (who likewise is nothing else but the eternal cyclcial scheme of things which takes us alongwith the universe from big bang to big crunch in eternal cycles). we reach total awarenes only at the end but by then we are like clay....at total awareness we are totally unaware of our individuality. who will then create and whose individul destiny?

discus anybody if he/she feels like but dont take it personally. what i have said above is however never to meant that we are not to make efforts to make our better destiny...but....we must also keep this in mind that do whatever we will, we will pass through childhood, youth, middle age and old age and die...

No Sayan i don't think that self awareness is an easy thing at all. It's perhaps one of the most challenging things one can do....a great adventure, not meant for the weak hearted. I guess that is why there are so few who manage to reach the heights. Just as well, since the world would be a very dull place if everyone was enlightened:-)Now when you say spiritual work has to be done first we have to define the spiritual first because like most things our views on it are usually quite haywire. Lots of people think they are practicing spirituality whereas infact they are just practicing superstition or social regulation.

Welcome Harbji. We are glad to have you as part of our discussion here. I want to respond later in some detail as you have said something very interesting....right now I am off for dinner:-)

Hallo harbji,
Thanks for your interesting comment.Actually this topic fascinates me,and i have read a lot of philosophy regarding this including books from Iskcon,Lao tzu,Tantrikicism paramhansa yogananda, my own understanding is indeed like you.While ramana maharishi says,Whatever it is there in your destiny you have to suffer or enjoy,Iskcon also says the same thing.Only paramhansa yogananada had said if one can he can change his destiny by self awareness but as i pointed out to anusheh that self awareness so apparently easy to understand may be the most difficult thing to comprehend.Your understanding of krishna and arjuna is rightly very apt and enlightened.Anyway it was very nice to have you in this discussion.

Dear Sayan,

Perhaps bringing about self-awareness is not such an easy task but it is not impossible either. With a little effort I think many of us can do it. Ok so we might not reach great heights ( or maybe you never know one might).

But most of us stay away from trying to be self aware. Self awareness involves being truthful to yourself, looking deep into the roots of your emotions, angers, frustrations etc. Often doing away with these emotions requires moving away from so far held beliefs, values, relationships. It is the latter that freaks many of us and withholds us from the path of self awareness. Self awareness requires sacrificing the comfort that one finds in hiding behind all the blame games that we constantly hurl towards others, towards destiny for the situation we are in.

Many people meet with absolute futility because here again they are looking for answers to awareness in something outside them and not within them.

Dear chaitali,
Thanks for your Participation in this discussion,maybe you are right in saying self awareness is about those things that you are talking about,but again sometimes you do think that the things that you want or strive for maybe because they wre meant to be striven for or esired by you.If you go through harbjis view regarding this which was very fascinating to read every thing has its ownplace in this world
which should not or cannot be toppled.In paramhansa yoganandas autobiography of a yogi theres a chapter where the author has gone to visit kashmir,they accidentally came across a garden of strawberries.When the author has tasted a strawberry,he felt an intense repulsion,and had exclaimed that he could not like strawberries,to which his guru yukteshwar said that he will like them in america.At a dinner there his host will mash strawberries with cream,and there the author will find those strawberries delicious.Exactly the same thing happened in yoganandas life,in deed when he went to America,he liked straw berries in one of the parties he was attending.The strawberries wre mashed with cream.Then the prediction came to yoganandas mind after about 10 years fromthe date on which the prediction was done.In another instance a boy asks yogananda what will happen to his fate to which yogananda replies that some day he will be forcibly taken away and ultimately be married.Indeeed it happened to that person after years of joining the swami order.So sometimes i relly think that everything that is happening in our life is already destined we are merely actiing out our parts.The things that we strive for to get going in life,is maybe because of the fact that were meant tostrive for it.Please give your views.

Dear Sayan,

I will give my views but in a while. Let me enjoy the few hours of electricity that Delhites seem to be destined for this summer!

sayan, below/behind/beyond the .99% of the visible world/body there is 99.01% of the invisible world/mind (it is a scientific fact, the latter is being called these days the quantum world full of virtual/potential particles/possibilities/potentialities). most people go to the depth of the above .99% visible world and feel that they have gone beyond all the world and so can now be self-aware of all the world and from there create their own world/destiny now. they dont know about the rest of the 99.01% of the world and what forces direct us from there. dil darya samundaro dunge kon dil dia jane...it is the same with mind. what forces lie there and in what way they direct us is not knonw to may. perhaps some day part of it will be known by going through my book self designed universe (www.selfdesigneduniverse.com).

may write more later as i am a bit busy now and moreover, as chaitali says, also enjoying a bit of electricity/airconditioner...that i till it goes lol.

most people erroneously think that perhaps by agreeing to destiny thing we are absolved of making any efforts on our own or of taking responsibility of our actions. while exactly opposite is the case. we are to make full efforts at our levels. we are to be held responsible for our actions. we will take punishment but THIS IS THE WAY WE WILL EVOVLE FURTHER ON THE ROAD ALREADY CHARTRED BY DESTINY. we cannot stop taking action at our own levels. it is as simple as a child's efforts at getting up, he cannot say no to efforts to his instinctual urge to get up, he will fll, he will suffer but in this way he will begin wlking running, a destined goal of hi/her for his childhood. the ame goes for all the rest of the phases, in which some goals are more apparent some less, some still far less.

btw, sayan, you mentioned "conversations with god" to anusheh. i have not read many books but i have browsed through that one and i think in that the author corrctly answers this destiny question. i have not the book with me now otherwise i would have gien you the quotation of page number etc.

Dear harbji,
Your understanding of philosophy is far deeper than what mine is,indeed in the book conversation with god the topic of destiny was elaborately dealt with.You had rightly said that our work in this life is to strive for the things that we want but not to expect any result,because whether whatever you are striving for in your life will get or not is dependent on your karma.You had rightly said that THIS IS THE WAY WE WILL EVOVLE FURTHER ON THE ROAD ALREADY CHARTRED BY DESTINY.That wasd an extremely potent statement.My emphasis on destiny was not meant to shun respionsibilty or work of any kind but to do that dispassionately not thinking about result.ANYWAY thanks for your comments.

sayan, thank you. yes, i know you did not say anything about avoiding responsibility, it was somebody else perhaps at some other thread or even blog. moreover, i dont think your understanding is much behind mine. well met!

and also sayan, just to tell you that it is not necessary to call me harb ji lol. i am harb plain and simple...eh tan anusheh and jasjit ji menu kadi kadi just satkar naal par kai wari ragran lai ( to rub, to chide) vi keh dende ne lol. contrast of ji and what follows (chiding) creates specialy interesting effect...

Good morning Sayan,

I apologize for taking two whole days to reply instead of a whule that I had told you earlier.

Perhaps we all come with our destinies and are merely acting out our parts. But right now I don't know my destiny and perhaps one day I'll come across someone who will predict my destiny. Perhaps whatever we are striving for is becuase we are destyined to do so. Whichever way we take it for me what is important that I do whatever I'm doing with full awareness and not get entangeled in mind games.

Hi Sayan

You said "So sometimes i relly think that everything that is happening in our life is already destined we are merely actiing out our parts."

In my opinion who you are/and how you respond to life at any given moment creates a certain time line of events. This is what we call destiny. However this is constantly open to change as long as we as individuals are changing and becoming more flexible and aware in our responses to life. I dont think that there is a fixed destiny which is unavoidable. But this is a concept which just keeps a lot of people from taking any responsibility for it all becomes about "what life doles out to me" and not "what I create as my life".

Dear anusheh and chaitali,
Its not a question of,whether you have come across any predictor or not,its actually much deeper than that,go through harbs article, you will understand that All i was saying is you do everything in life,to the best of your abilty and dont think about result.Always remember that there is a far higher power than us who ultimately determines the course of ones life.Till then,Keep on thinking.

and we say we r living in 21st century.....eh heheheheeh heheheheh hahahah ehhhh ehhhhhhh!!!!!

don't ask me to read all the huge posts otherwise i'll faint. ; - )

Tantra is awareness!

enuff!

uff u maa!

Cheers, Rohit

"i don't think that self awareness is an easy thing at all. It's perhaps one of the most challenging things one can do....a great adventure, not meant for the weak hearted."

What rubbish! It's the most simple thing one can do & the only problem is that everyone is interested in difficult things which satisfies the ego including writing complex theories about tantra, spirituality etc. etc.

It's time that we all must admit that we are complicated / difficult & interested in ego gratifying ventures.

If any one have LAL KITAB or KALI KITAB for sadhana or any sadhna ebook
please mail ebook to
"piyush_rathodgroup@yahoo.com"