Open Thread

Hi Bloggers!

Jasjit just wrote about it on another thread that today this blog has completed 7 months!

A blog on sexuality, that's what Is It About Sex? is. A blog which deals with a significant part of all our lives. A blog where contributors take up the myriad facets of sex and sexuality and create thought provoking dialogues on its role in our everyday life.

Opening the blog and going through the comments, the queries, the sharing of experiences in these 7 months have all been so enriching for me and I'm sure for many of the others who are with us, those who were with us and those who have recently joined us.

1 million hits in the past 7 months, over 90 percent appreciating the site and voting for the need of such a platform of dialogue and discussion. Is it about Sex? is definitley making the rounds in peoples' head.

But then compared to the stats why is the visibility of commentators low? What is it that is making many read but keeping them away from writing, voicing, sharing their takes on the issues that are being thrown open for discussion on the blog?

A feedback on this will be much appreciated :)

Love
Chaitali

It is that sentence that my mother always used to say to me that hunted me for a great part in my life: "Men, they only want to have sex with a woman, as much as they need and as quick as possible"

Lol, when you think about this it can really make you prejudiced and fearful. Things that happened in my life have probably been evidence of this.

A lot has already changed, at least in our country in my view. But after an investigation among people in our country there still is difference of opinion about it between a man and a woman.

Nowadays a man wants his woman to have every pleasure out of it, but she will also have to take the lead more often. Men still want to have sex more often than women and still the orgasm is the most important. While women expect something more, something else, caring, sharing, talking and exchanging viewpoints.

I know the only real important conversations i have with my husband are always before having sex lol. I do take advantage of this.

Sachin

Let's then start a discussion on your favourite topic IB. Only because i want to say that my opinion is totally the opposite. Namely that IB is precisely for those who are 'sensitive' as you say. sensitive to the purpose (name to be precise) of IB, asking each and every participant to focus on their Intent for being there. Created by a central force with the purest Intent IMO it has already set up a holomovement if you will (and a very powerful one in my experience)of intentions. Perhaps the problem is that we do not focus on why we are there truthfully. So those who seek glory reap the karma of that intent complete with its pitfalls including the manipulations they engage in to push their agendas. Others are there to please all and their artifice is challenged sooner or later, yet others are their to learn and share and they continue to be pivots of wisdom, some come there to sound lofty and know it all and hence get sidelined, some are there to find friends and they do etc etc. Even the one's who heckle and are supposedly 'rude' act as catalysts for many. And many just cannot be silent and draw from what exists, their need to comment/assert/be seen/heard is so intense that it rules their better judgement and often they end up in scraps and tripe.

I guess it is only if one is sensitive enough to read each current as a balancing stream, read each eruption as a mirroring act see how our antipathies and attachments reflect who we are does one really understand the power of IB. People engeged in verbal wars with individuals are merely reflecting an inner war with a similar side etc. And of course the intense divide at IB between the heart poeple and the mind people. The world in a microcosm, isn't it and yet largely a microcosm drawing people from and towards a higher Intent.

Now I know I have given you much to respond to :)

Mieke,

Few days back I was watching Meera Nair's 'Life is not all Ha ha hee hee', a movie on NRI Indians. It's a story about three best friends (women) well into their 30s. The movie is about the ups and downs in their relationship with their husbands, lovers, ex-lovers, family and with each other. The movie was ok but there was this particular dialogue in the movie that struck me.

The husband of one of the girls is also the lover (and ex-boyfriend) of her best friend. When the former comes to know about this she tells the third friend that "It's not so much the sex but the fact that he is talking, laughing and smiling with someone else which is so humiliating."

Guess my first reaction is that she feels he does not give her that attention, that special attention of talking, laughing and smiling :)

So she will have to find a way for herself to attract that in him for her :)

Tell me something, cause i believe this is the real bottleneck. We will have to learn not to be jealous but be more creative in finding ways to turn this into a positivie direction for us as women. I do it my way, what is yours?

Hi Mieke

Firstly the power situation here is not the exception but the rule. Acute heat and acute cold just worsen the already faltering system. And whose at fault? Hmmm corruption, apathy, governemnt incompetence, weather, worn-out infrastructure, billion people and a genetic revulsion to management and planning lol. So most days you just grin and bear(would help if you could bare) and other days you whine and despair. :)

Your comment can generate a book I'm sure. Its all so proverbial at some level and things seem to move to another scale of functioning but fundamentally fail to change which I guess is only about individuals and not social pysche.

Let me share something related which I pondered on this morning. I have recently adopted three stray dogs whom I feed every morning. Largely they loll outside my house now waiting for their food. Two are male and one is a female. She was the thinnest, just skin and bones with a damaged hind leg and the most endearing eyes, and is the most recent to join the pack. The leader of the pack, Johnny, came first because he had a skin disease I was trying to cure so I used to bring him to the house for ointments etc. The next was another flea-infested male(Rabbit)who joined later though much in awe of Johnny and never approached his food etc. I soon noticed a clear heirarchy. If one bowl of food was served, Johnny was the one who ate and the other two did not even consider disturbing him though they looked on longingly. If Rabbit and Johnny ate the frail female sat despondently at a distance. Now feeding her was fascinating. Not only Johnny but the side-kick Rabbit would rush at her food growling in disapproval and she would flee. So now I not only feed them together (3 bowls) but stand guard with a stick until she finishes. Otherwise she just has no chance.

So it got me thinking of our primal legacy. the male's must be the first, to eat and to grab what they need while the female just cowers and hides on instinct knowing she is basically lowest in the rung. HOWEVER once she is on heat, well there is nothing more prized than her, not even food and every male is wooing, chasing and trying to catch her attention, even killing each other in the bargain. Her worth at the primal/instinctual level is purely sexual(in this case procreative)

Modern mind has inherited a troubled gender world because somehwere I guess the edified male does not like this basic analogy. He does not want to accpt his primal make-up and perhaps won't or cannot find the path to making a fundamental change in his persona. And that's what it takes Mieke, a very fundamental change which first acknowledges there is a problem. And the most 'aware' men are on a slippery sexual slope. IMO. Its interesting how sexual power is another thing which is very basic to masculinity. I have often found that when daunted by my mind or knowledege etc even fairly evolved men will start with sexual innuendo or games. At this stage of my life I just find it mystifying/tedious/pathetic and their gall just amazes me.

breaking off for lunch will get back with more. :)

Jasjit....You're pure in the heart, that's why your perceptions are so pure. Acha IB mera fav topic ho gaya? Teek hai. Yes, there's a quite a lot there. I generally take my time...ponder deeply and then answer...that way it has that depth one can cherish. In a Rush, will get back to you with interesting response.

Love...Sachin

mieke, your comment about jealousy reminds me of the following paragraphs of the book in punjabi which i translated into english a few months back. there are in fact some 20 points like that, if you find interesting i can copy more. then there are for men as well. erhaps someday i will get it published too.

2. Sexual-jealousy is natural in animals and raw people, but it is a useless distraction for a refined and intelligent person. If you ever find your husband showing interest in some other woman, don't take it as a sign of impending catastrophe, just take it as a warning to yourself. These outside interests, either of man or of woman, to me are like the 'governors' of an engine: these increase/decrease the speed of life according to the need of the times.

Jealousy serves no purpose. It only tears open the stomach of the hen from which we wish to get the golden egg immediately. Never restrain your partner from such outside interest, and if the interest seems to be dangerous make efforts to tilt it the other way - towards yourself. This relationship of love is such that if it is not won daily it begins to go stale. The wife who wants to compete with the good nature and sweet talk of her competitor by getting annoyed with or blocking the way of her husband is playing the losing game.

3. When you find the balance of interest of your partner tilting towards someone else, add some counter-weight to your side. There are many kinds of counter-weights every man/woman can think of - kindness, compassion, cleanliness, sacrifice, service, gratitude, admiration, good food, special display of unselfishness - which can put the balance straight immediately.

Jealousy is the most useless of ways, and what to talk of setting straight, tilts the balance against you for the whole of life.

well said jasjit (on message on IB), the outer wars are reflectins of the inner wars...as perhaps are the outer problems...

Mieke why I mentioned the dialogue was to show that for the woman it was more than just the sex that her husband was having with another woman that was hurting her ( to reinforce your point:))

You see in the movie the reason why the guy marries this particular friend is because she is the 'wife- material'(a popular term used in Indian culture to describe a woman who will cook, look after the house, is sweet, is not ambitious or looking for a career, will bear the man children. The other friend who was his girlfreind was more of an outgoing type of a woman and so she was not the 'marrying type'.

The movie was trying to show the gender stereotypes.

What the whole incident made the wife realize is that she had to rise above from being just a wife who is trying to please her husband to an individual who has her own independent voice, self etc.

IMO Jealousy is something that arises from the feeling that someone else has that which I don't have which places that other person in a more advantageous position in what ever matter.

Well the simplest thing would be to ask yourself what is it that you lack, is it something that is preventing you from realising your true self... if yes then try to identify it and develop it in yourself. But here I am of the opinion that this should not be done as a reaction or as an act of revenge but more as a way of imbibing in oneself qualities that will allow ones true spirit to flourish.

Hi Mieke, interesting questions. Harbji I dont know if I agree with what you have said here. I dont see why women should always be the ones to balance the scale out so to say. If men are having affairs women should improve upon themselves. If they're showing interest in other women then again its the wife who should change or modify her temperament. Why?

Dont get me wrong I am not saying that jealousy is a positive emotion, but the formula for dealing with it seems all wrong to me.

Mieke, women's jealousy with other women is a really difficult issue and might I add, rampant in the way women relate with each other. Personally I have always found it easier to develop and maintain friendships with men because of this.

I've seen women do awful things to other women and I really do believe that only another woman knows how to get under another womans skin. Men may think that they have the ultimate power to violate women through the sexual etc. but really womens ability to emotionally harm and manipulate other women can be far more insiduous in my opinion.

Having said that you could say that the feminine has learnt to be conniving and manipulative as merely a survival skill inherited by the play and politics of patriarchy etc. But that doesnt really go anywhere beyond a point.

I do agree with you though that since the feminine is creation herself, the more she focuses on creativity the more likely she is to resolve her dark sides....that's of course if she lives with awareness.

Phew! I really needed to get this off my chest:-) Thanks lol

Hi Jasjit, Harb, great comments and yes a whole book can be written about it cause every generation has to find out the wheel again for itself :)

Basic is that a person him/herself accepts the way s/he is or has become and that it is as it is at that moment. s/he who becomes aware of this, then can accept his/her own uniqueness. Cause we all have the same genes but we also all have our own unique way of expressing ourselves.

I guess when raising children telling them about their own uniqueness is a most important thing :)
So generalization is perhaps a thing that is not always the best way. I remember me doing this towards some of my friends, telling them for instance: Oh yes i have experienced this too and then telling my story lol. Sometimes you help someone with but i now also understand that listening is as important.

Want to tell you my experience with our little doggies (we used to have two cairn terriers).

When the eldest was five (she is the female and we did have her sterilized when she was 9 months), we, my daughter, son, husband and me all agreed that it would be nice to have another one, so she would have company lol

We went to the same kennel and the owner advised us to take a male. He told us because she was sterilized nothing was going to happen but the male would still be focussed on her and see her as its mate and they would get along better than two females.

Now i do not have to tell you who was the boss there from the beginning lol
She claimed her rights from the very first moment and the poor little one has seen every corner in our house. But after a few months things changed, they indeed became good friends and there was another advantage, we didn´t have to do anything in upbringing or educating lol, she took care of everything.
Nowadays only the male is still with us, is almost eleven now and he is the most adorable sweet little doggy you can imagine. And still always in for a little game :)

And so you see Chaitali how perception can lead one into her comments in this case lol. But why does the woman have to rise above this. I accepted the way i was made and it still gave me a very fulfilling way of living. My children didn´t always agree with this, but as it is my life and my decision i choose what was best for me. And i do not regret it.

That is why a new generation has to find out the wheel again by itself but there will always be women who want to just be a housewife and "please" their husband in one way or another. As long as this is accepted by the person itself then nothing is wrong here.

Anusheh, this subject is the whole confusion that has arisen about emancipation, we have to emancipate ourselves both women and men. Our governments have taken advantage of this whole emancipaton issue by getting everyone to go and get a job for him/herself, so we all could become independent of each other, but they forgot to accompany us with the other part of the medal, how do we compete in a positive way with each other. That is the challenge now :).
So we will indeed have to look deep inside ourselves.
But you made your point and it holds a lot of truth! Here the rule definitely is: Change yourself and you change the world.

Mieke,

Agreed. There is nothing wrong if someone wants to be a housewife/homemaker as long as that person does it because they want to do it and are happy doing it. Disillusion comes when one is doing it simply because one is told that this is the 'right' thing to do or because one is trying to seek appreciation/kudos from and trying to prove ones worth to others.

Every person needs to find the creativity that lies within them- and this can be done in any space. Jealousy etc are only indicators that tell us to focus on our inner self rather than on others.

anusheh, read my first paragraph again. i also said that there are similar points for men as well in that book and if you find which i have already given interesting i will copy the others about the women and men too.

moreover, here the discussion was going about a woman feeling jealousy in the course of which an other woman, mieke, explained how she overcomes it by being more creative etc. i just seconded mieke's view since the author had written something about it very much resembling meike's.

even then you have a point and in fact some women questioned the author even then - some 70 years ago - on similar lines and this is what he wrote in response, again from the same book:

*****
A learned sister asks:

"You say that the husband should sometimes go into the kitchen, but it is not necessary that all the educated wives should lead kitchen-centred lives:

'One wife is a teacher. She comes home, the husband also comes home, the tea is not ready. The servant has delayed it, the husband instead of asking the servant yells at the wife... The wife is not ready to accept it that she should take up the responsibility of preparing tea for the husband in time leaving her job before time.'

'One woman is a poet. No body knows when the mood to write will come over her. She would like to be free from the household responsibilties and strict rules of the husband. The husband cannot accept it. The life remains dull.'

'The progressive thinkers like you cannot deny that the women should take part in every sphere of life. The women who take part in different spheres of life would naturally have different tastes. Some would like to serve the society by writing, some by moving the hearts through poetry, still some others by the melody of music, by teaching etc. Will you expect all of them to keep the happiness of their husbands as their main aim - is it necessary for them to show their worth only in the kitchen to get the nod of praise from their husbands?'

'You say, the husband should not talk of office work at home. Wouldn't it be better for the mutual happiness of husband-wife to take interest in each other's work?'

'You recommend that the husband should be given full freedom in running his business - he may see whom he wishes, but are the husbands also ready to give the same freedom to their wives?'

'If the husband does some sensitive work the wife should minimise his worries - but what if the wife does the sensitive work? Will the husband then take the responsibilities on himself?'

'Your hints are for the women, because according to you the women's sphere of work is very narrow. Wouldn't it be better then to allow the women a broader sphere to work - how many husbands will allow that?'"

But the essays to keep the spark of life burning bright are not being written from the point of view from which my sister has asked me the above questions.

The purpose of these essays is not to decide about the rights of men and women, but to be able to produce some comforting sparks from within the emotional make-ups of the couples, given the prevailing social and economic atmosphere.

The woman of the first example teaches in a school and comes home at the same time as the husband. The husband yells at her for not getting tea immediately. If I were to give my decision purely on the basis of the rights of men and women, I would have decided in favour of the woman. But this could not have helped the life's spark in any way. For those who value the spark of life more than the settlement of the question of rights, I will say that, though both may work outside, only one should be the overall in-charge of the household. Nothing will come out of both scolding the servant, he should be answerable to only one of them. And only that one should be given suggestions, complained about and complimented.

In the home in which the man can look after the kitchen and household better, he may take charge, the woman may go for her guitar or book on return from school.

If the household can remain cheerful thanks to the love-full bliss of this arrangement, well and good. But if there seems something dying out daily, then the wife may try my recommendation of springing surprises on her husband by preparing some specially learned dishes and offering them to him now and then.

2. In the second example of the poetess-wife, if she can also enthrall her husband with her poem, then she need not worry about the household or of the kitchen. It would go on all right. But if there seems some deficiency, she may also look into the kitchen sometimes herself.

To say purely in terms of rights, no one can force the other to do his bidding. It is the right of the poetess-wife to write whenever she likes, and keep herself free of the household responsibilities - but then if she finds the spark of homely life dying out she will have to try some of my recommendations.

The woman is welcome to take part in every sphere of life. It will be blissful for both. She may write, she may sing, she may fly, she may do all the light and heavy jobs, gain respect, adorn offices. What better fortune for the mankind!

But if a woman cannot have her husband's admiration without putting some magic into her kitchen, then she would better not bother much about the rights and non-rights. There is no better state in life than mutual admiration between life-partners.

The husband may not talk of office once he is home - not for the sake of himself but for the sake of his wife. If the wife is happy listening to the talk of office, it is an other matter. If I were a wife I will like to utilise the home hours for recharging my tired heart of the days work with the sympathetic heart of my husband. Even now my wife works at a school for four hours daily. If she talks of school after coming home without prior appointment I forbid her.

My aim is not to keep each other out from the common interests, but only to abstain from milking each other dry even when there is nothing of interest. There is no ban on the mutual interaction that pleases both.

I have not recommended full freedom to the husband in his business dealings to do him a favour, but for the benefit of the business. If such a freedom is also the need of the wife, and the husband is reluctant to give it to her, the spark of life will definitely die. This spark of life is very freedom-loving something, it does not wait for the decision of a court, nor appeals in some higher court, it simply dies off, and that is all there is to it. And re-kindles if at all only on its own terms. Rights, justice, equality are no measurements on its scale.

The wife who does sensitive work is as much in need of care as the husband in the same situation is. But our aim is to keep the spark of life burning bright. Whatever keeps it burning bright is right, irrespective of what the others think of it, and whatever turns it dim is wrong, even though it may accord cent-percent with the rules of justice.

My sister asks how many parents and how many husbands give the woman the opportunities to expand her sphere of action?

Only a few! And none will be ready to give an inch on my recommendation.

But I am worshipper of the glowing spark of life. I do not want to let it die even in restrictive atmospheres. I am fighting for the lifting of restrictions of all kinds as well. Not with a view to sympathise with women, but from the knowledge that only in the full freedom of action the men and women can fulfil their destined roles.

But the inspiration for these essays did not come from intellectual reasoning, only from the desire to make living an art.

These essays have not been written to advocate for the equal rights. These have been written to suggest ways and means to balance these admittedly unequal rights to each other’s advantage till the situation improves.

*****

there may yet remain some doubts/deficiencies but we must remember that the author wrote these essays some 60-70 years ago. so we must rather give credit to the author even on the question of right/euality since he in some way - in this and other essays at least sowed seeds of future equality perhaps which you are now experiencing at least to some extent.

anusheh, yet all said, i may also say that these are author's view ponts and not necessrily mine. mine stand best expressed in silence.

Chaitali....that's an interesting question, something which has been close to my heart. Understanding people's psyche well, the reasons I found out over a long period of interacting at the forums:

1. Lot of people are hesitant and shy(many reasons for that)

2. ONE OF THE MOST IMP I reckon is the welcome and the fostering of the newbies. They have to feel they wud be welcome and others are interactive of them.

3. Out of the many reasons of #1....they are afraid of their writing skills and expression, and a lot of them unforunately aren't even sure of their expression.

Love..Sachin

Jasjit....so often we assess/measure by just One yardstick. Did you wonder on that, especially the spiritual yardstick? I realized that at IB.

I think very much like you abt the Intention and purpose. This is something which you had talked when you were a regular visitorlast yr. I too believed like you, with well intentioned people it may take a nice shape...but I've seen how it deteriorated. Exactly! Each one shud be really asked why are they there? The reasons you gave were so true.

I didn't answer some of the questions of your post. My take is different on that. Wud like to answer it at leisure.

How are things there today in Delhi? Same! It's has been raining almost every day her since a wk, so I think it shud arrive there to cool you off soon:)

Later..Sachin

Sachin

You are forbidden to talk of rain and cool winds to us Delhiites until our rains arrive. Yes today was another unbearable day of loooong power cuts and only now have I come home to a cool room.

Let's first dispense with my pure heart and just stick with my insight. That way you won't set yourself up for any disillusionment lol. A Zen master said it all 'I don't trust anyone so that I can trust all equally.'

As for IB you are again missing my point. It's not about how its 'deteriorating because of others' but about what its doing for me and if I am there, then what am I doing for it. Just something to ponder on why you are drawn to engage and then why to withdraw as well.

And you know Sachin, wisdom/Advaita/spirituality etc are all very well but they are often merely for pontification. In every word and deed our measured self is actually revealed. It is there where the arduous road of watching mind/attentiveness really happens. Even when people have great expereinces of oneness etc I have alway observed that it does not mean that penetrating the truth in one wonderous moment ensures transformation of the illusory self. No my friend, the road is painstaking, requires constancy and an unwavering pointedness to dropping blocked/egotistical/mind-games. Most falter here constantly.

Spaces like Intent are a great gift to enter such a space where the play has been created for the most astute learning, epecially of the mind/intellect barriers. You can see it around you and within you as you relate and respond. In that sense it is like a modern day sat sangh. But for that Sachin a certain reverance/gratitude/attentiveness/surrender is critical. And there are some (few no doubt) there who are able to do exactly that and I guess one has to decide for oneslef , like I said before, the Intent of why one is there.

Just some thoughts! :)

And Sachin just to add let's drop the word spiritual for its much maligned. How about the yardstick of Truth, can we just use truth as a pointer. That is always all that is needed and enough

love

Dear Chaitali, i have been creative in my own way during the time my husband had his job outside. We both decided that it was best for us and the children that i did not take a job outside too. So i did not have any income of myself, yet i received everything i needed at the appropriate time :)

But there is still one question that bothers me. Of course i will have to ask my sister herself but here goes: my sister found a great job outside when her children were old enough to be left alone.

Not long ago i told her about the fulfilling life i have led up till now and she told me that it was on account of my husband being the only one with a job in the house that i have been able to lead such a fulfilling life.

I wonder if that is true.....

Hi Mieke

Creative ways to handle jealousy eh! Hmmm I don't believe a negative emotion can produce any creative expressions. Something of a tautology no! Jealousy is a lousy state of mind for it eats and gnaws like nothing else. But the reason it is so powerful and cannot be stemmed easily is because jealousy is NOT really an emotion by itself but a symptom of a deeper disturbance. So unless that depth is accessed all is cosmetic, suppression/deflection/transcendence etc. Management of it, creative or otherwise, will just lead to plain manipulation and that is what abounds in relationships. Harb Ji in his infinite wisdom has given us a host of 'management' techniques argued this way and that, sometimes through rights and sometimes through supplication. But I am fraid all pure and simple manipulations. Albeit socially politer ones than say tearing your partner's hair out, giving him/her a black eye or itching powder in their clothes lol.

IMO jealousy comes from a legacy of low sexual self-esteem in women where the history of female roles has been rife with polygamy, sex-workers, mistresses, harems, younger women, wandering male eye etc etc. Ageing women have the finger of time wagging ominously at the end of the race where wives must now make way for nubile young girl-friends. Moral orders have sanctioned male promiscuity and our grandmothers whose voice echoes endlessly, 'men will stray, it's your job to keep them enticed.' All quite a messy weight for the modern woman who wants to step out of many levels of 'artifice'. However while she may want to age naturally, grey, let her boobs sag, enjoy her middle/old age as creative times ...her partner/husband does not find his times changed enough. He is still ticking with the old clock, there are enough nubile young things to entice etc etc. And even if he doesn't intend it his sexual disinterest is obvious from his fascination with other's beauty and attractiveness. Unfortunately all he is doing is struggling with the impending doom of his withering sexuality ..but the seeds being sown are painful and damaging self-image.

Add to this a natural self which is emotionally scarred by life experiences, maybe a low body image for various reasons, the whole neurosis over having a 'partner' to validate your 'being' especially in the west, and one is rife with fears, insecurities which alway translate as seeing a threat, everywhere.

Men on the other hand suffer from similar insecurities about self, sexual charm, atrractiveness and low self-esteem. Added to this their legacy is that a wife/woman is theirs for life makes their jealosy and possessiveness quite potent. I mean Othello still continues to breathe as a plausible prototype.

So jealousy is a big one for it is literally the mouth of a huge inner cavern. Only when one turns within and accepts the truth that loving oneself, validating and healing insecurities at myriad levels, accessing one's own self-containment is the key, does jealousy transform into acceptance.

And Harb Ji if silence is where your truth lies on this matter and these are just another's words to which you may not subscribe, then what purpose do they serve under your name????

Just some thoughts

Dear Harbji

This man was quite archaic and perhaps a bit senile. There are many writers who wrote 60 to 70 years ago and spoke about rights which people still aspire to. And as for his words having contributed to the emancipation that I enjoy today....I dont think so. Let's just leave it at that. I'm relieved to know though that these words aren't yours.

Dear Mieke

Does it really matter? I mean whether your fulfilling life was due to your husband's income or yours? The point is that you had a fulfilling life. So many, many women with independent incomes cannot say that about their lives. Its obviously the quality that you brought to it that matters. And you know for someone as aware as you, the rules are different for you make them consciously. So enjoy the fruits of a rare life! :)

love

Harb

I forgot to add that why would you like to be silent on that matter? Hearing your thoughts on it would be insightful. So tell us :)

love

Dear Jasjit, thanks for you insightful comments on jealousy, i must admit that even i have not lost all of it but i accept the way i look and the way my body is unfolding now lol.

And i must say i have a husband who is really able to live in the now. I can still learn from him in this respect. We regularly quarrel now that he is at home all the time, after all, the women of my generation that did not have a job have been used to have an enormous time being alone with themselves, while the average man is never alone.

But to be able to end the day together peacefully is already quite an achievement and we both are aware of this :)

Nevertheless, again learnt a lot today for which i am very grateful to all the contributors to this open thread.
Thanks a lot!
With much love,

jasjit, if anything is amiss outside look within, as per your own words.

by being silent i just repose faith in your own wisdom to sort out things in the right way, more so, as according to your own words, all is as it should be, so at the end you will sse perfection in all/everyhting, see that everything is as it should be so that everything could advance as it should to fulfill nature's final evolutionary purpose.

the author's words should be seen in the context of the times they were written, when more couples were interested in making their marriages work or at the most make them more interesting. author has clearly stated that. it is only now that more people are ready to remain single or break the marriage rather than manage them at the cost of their rights etc and they are right at the present times. but this does not make the author wrong.

i mentioned the author just to second mieke's way of handling of jealousy. i mentioned him again when anusheh said that why he has not said something for men to do to make the things work. may be not right according to your understanding but he did say things to men as well. even now not all are as advancd as you and anusheh and many may yet get benefitted from what the author has written. perhaps this is why the holomoment of this blog made me write this.

Dear Jasjit...The blog is abt love, and you talk so much abt love here and you say it is forbidden to talk of rains and forget abt the pure heart.

Without Affection, How do I talk to you??:))

Vaise kaafi Rambling karthi vho tum!
No...but seriously now...I'm in agreement with you now on this one, to know you plainly. Fine, I agree with you on that from now. Vaise main yeha peh koi Ego trip ke liye nahi aaya voon, hope you're clear on that....sirif dil se baath karne aaya voon.

Ok spiritual word ko nikalkar....truth lagathe hai. All that you've said Jasjit above is True! True for yourself! For sure, as you can so well speak on ur behalf. But it doesn't mean that all others shud perceive it like you or like me.

Deteriorating ka matlab seeda aur saaf hai. Logon ke Intentions pehle jho the ab jho hai. vho. Just an Objective observation without any bias or anything.

Tum jho spiritual level se baath kar rahi vho, that is true. I can only wish people were like you. With me...I'm Very clear with why I'm there, what are my Intentions...and all that u had mentioned. I'm Very clear with myself.

Talking abt the point from your perspec. Yeah, IB humein kya sikhatha hai vho imp hai? But how many are there for learning Jasjit?? This is the point I always tell to spiritual people like you...duniya koi sant sadhuvo se bhari nahi hai, na hee jasjit jaise sincere learners se bhari hai. To think and assume others are like this is not seeing things as they are. Listen...I'm talking abt at the level of the Ego(personality)here and not from the perspec of the spirit. From which place you're seeing things makes it so imp in a discussion. I'm curious Jasjit abt your zodiac sign may I know?(first guess virgo)

Yeha peh log Love se sign karne mein Hesitate kyun karthe hai Jasjit? Ithni buri aur forbidden cheez hai kya Universal love??

Love..Sachin

Harb Ji

Tussi merey naal gussey na hoya karo bus. Merey mun vich tuhadey liye pyar tey stakar hi hai. Baaki tey vichar ti adla badli tey asi mun halan vaastey vi kardey haan. Shayad apney aukehy tey kathor raasteyan to ho guzar key doosreyan nu experiences share karan dey kisi galatphehmi vich lag jandey haan.

Dekho ey illusion aithey bolan tey likahn di vi shayd badi der nahi rahen vaali. Sab kol apney joga gyan kaafi hai.:)

Sachin

Jo sochtey ho bilkul sahi aur theek sochtey ho.

love

Kya Jasjit Apna zodiac sign bhi nahi batha sakthi vho?

jasjit, yes, bahut aukhian wakta di yaad kadi kadi sanu overtake kar leindi hai par phir vi saanu ehna vichon niklana hi pavega...(even now we may thank all who made us suffer because they eventually helped us grow spiritually...

tusi menu "guse na hoia karo BUS" te "HAVE TO" warge lafaz sunade riha karon te mein guse ho hi nahin sakda...hun vi menu tan samajh nahin aundi ki me guse kiven and kadOn hoia han...mein tan bus apni dosat meiek da point hi support kar riha si...te jan tuhanu remind kara riha si ki dont waste much energy outside...eh pichhli gal shaid tuhanu galat sakdi si is di muafi chahnda han...par guse mein bilkul nahin hoia...

Hi Mieke,

There can be so many permutations and combinations- husband and wife both earning and still unhappy/happy, one earning the other not and still unhappy/happy, husband unhappy/happy with earning wife, wife happy/unhappy staying at home, husband respects homemaker wife but wife unhappy being so... and the list can go on.

When I took a short break after marriage I was going crazy at home. My husband on the other hand was supportive and told me to relax and do whatever I liked. Work if I want to and stay at home if I want to. But I was uncomfortable with the whole situation because I was confused as to what I wanted. Though my husband was chilled about whatever decision I made; it was I who was undecided. And much of this undecisiveness was because of various fears and insecurities in my mind. Gradually however I started working on these fears and insecurities and today I am much more clear about myself. The distinction between being a homemaker or going out a working is not so important for me now (since I am handling both quite happily ofcourse with the help of my husband and other family members) as is being aware of my thoughts and feelings.

You were aware of what you wanted to do and what would fulfil you. And that is why whether your husband was earning, wanted you to stay at home or not did not matter :)

I look forward to more accounts of how you have been able to live such a wonderful and fulfilled life so far :) Thanks for bringing up this question and indulging us in such an intereseting and close to heart topic.

Sachin,

About #1 and #3 I agree with you. I would like to tell all those who are reading the blog to not feel shy from writing their thoughts. We are not some big gyanees sitting on this side of the computer preaching to people. We too are just putting out our observations and experiences and would like all the others to do so. Just pen down your observations, thoughts, criticisms in whatever best way you can. Sentences need not be grammatically correct or without spelling mistakes :)

Will keep your #2 in mind. Its not that we have not been welcoming the newbies but next time will be more AWARE (as thats eems to be the keyword here on the blog ;) )

Anyone care to do an article on empty nest syndrome?

My son leaves for college in a month. I am so proud of his graduation last week, and embarking for 3 years college, almost 500 miles away.

I been doing ok with it, as this is all on the path for us both; and millions of other families.

But, the past few days, I really feel a steady weight. I can usually meditate it away... create a design to clear my mind, and focus on something else...but, it's becoming a steady creeping force of sadness; over-riding the joy I should be feeling, for his new path at college.

Maybe, it's because I'll be alone at home when he leaves? I don't have friends, or a support system with family. I am becoming so introverted... with nobody to talk to about this with... some email friends; but, without support beside you..heavy walls are hard to hold up!?

Not only that, but my income will auto-decline by seven hundred dollars a month!!

I don't know what I feel/fear most? My son being on his own in a huge city at only 17, or my slow starvation into oblivion?

Being turning 50 next month; the prospects of a future, seem in the dark and din...

help me, I"m falling...

Dear North,

You are not going to fall. Have you so far? No. So sit down quietly and put down your fears or that which is causing the anxiety in you first. Be true to yourself. And then you'll see things will look much better.

Don't let your mind throw you into a panic.

Dear North, i was going to send you the text below at your 50th birthday, but after reading your message here above i am going to send it to you now :) Will think about another one at the "Great" day itself lol:

"Actually, 50 is a marvellous age, because:

You have reached half a century (that on its own is already quite an achievement!).

Children talk to you as ´Granny`or you are called ´Sara`.

People stand up to give you a place in the bus.

You are starting to remember things of the "Good old days".

But the nicest things still have to happen...

So ON YOUR WAY TO 51 lol

Please share you fears with us here, just write them down. You are not alone and if we share our experiences this can be a learning journey for everyone of us.

Chaitali, i will tell you more of how my life has unfolded and how i have handled my fears :)

Dear Chaitali,

When i decided not to go out and find a job, i thought it was the most natural thing for me, to do some volunteer work. The doctor in our town just set up a council for patients in order for them to consult with small health issues. The reason he did this was two-fold, first he wanted to unburden himself from a lot of patients visiting him with questions that were in his eyes due to their own way of living and secondly of course to make them aware of it.

A few people of our women´s group had applied for this and asked me to join in. And so i did. I soon provided myself with much work and as it usually goes in such councils, one or two do the job and the others only attended the meetings, told everyone what they wanted and then left lol

Slowly but surely i worked myself into a lot of trouble because not only this workload was heavy but there happened a few things with some women in my group. As we promised each other to stand by one another, naturally i helped out.

And yes, before i knew it i was helping everyone, except myself. I got severely overstrained.

Next part follows, lol this is going to be quite a story, i can write a whole book of this.

Love,

In the meantime things in my household went smoothly, both kids attending school, regular way of life, till a niece came to stay for holidays with us. All in the same time i was doing the other things above.

But the thing that really struck me was that when i said to the father and mother of the niece how great my life was and that i enjoyed it so much he gave me the strangest reply i ever received: Yeah go on and enjoy yourself hopping from one man to another, perhaps your husband is doing the same at this moment. My husband was on a sailing weekend with a friend ours.

I was perplexed! Could not think of a reply. When they were gone i had the greatest trouble to let it all sink in and asking myself why he had given me such a reply.

That same evening my husband came home from his weekend and i asked him if he had been with another woman. He asked me where i got that idea from and so i told him. Then he told me he had indeed be sailing with his friend and asked me which one i believed and naturally i told him i believed him. But the doubt was in my mind.

And so came the day i woke up with a very heavy pain around my chest and back, got scared so very deeply that i could almost not handle it anymore. Yet, i knew for sure that it was not a heart attack.

So went to my doctor, told him what was bothering me and that i did not want any pills. We talked a while and in the end he gave me some very light ones.

Then i came to the conclusion that there was no-one in my direct surroundings to which i could talk about my fear. My husband told me to stop with the volunteer work and that i was doing this to myself lol

As we had moved to another town a few years before the beginning of my story hereabove, i have to tell that my family lived quite a long distance away. So i could not just go and see them.

So from one moment to the other i stopped with all the things i was doing at that moment and everyone was surprised and asked why. I told them that i was not able to handle it anymore.
Perhaps i did not explain it that well cause from that moment no-one wanted any contact with me and the women of my group, which i had helped, were too busy with their own problems and even were annoyed that i did not help them anymore.
To make a long story short: i had been helping everyone and when i needed help no-one was there.

I will try to make the rest of the story short but i had to tell you the above because this experience helped me to overcome almost all my fears at once. It has been the one great event that had to happen after my experience of oneness.

Could not talk to my husband about either experience, so drove with my kids to my parents. They were not home, my parents in law were. Told my story and instead of understanding received all kinds of reproaches.

I was devastated, left my two kids with my parents in law and drove back home. I don´t know anymore how i got there but it was my husband´s voice in my head that told me how to drive, how to slow down when needed, he brought me safely home. I learnt from that experience.

I went to my doctor and he let me talk and talk and at the end I was back with my experience of oneness and the certainty that i was able to love myself the way i was and that i did not need anyone anymore to make me feel whole.

My life started from scratch and now i really was in seventh heaven :) People around me thought i had taken drugs, they saw this metamorphosis and couldn´t believe their eyes lol.
Since this time i really do listen to myself, indeed hearing this little soft voice inside telling me that everything is allright. I cannot do anything wrong. And it is my beacon.

A whole lot had to happen before i finally wanted to accept this simple truth and from then on life unfolded by itself.

If i have been able to help anyone with this story it makes me very grateful.

Jasjit&Chaitali...I was watching star news a few min back, and what I saw was stunning. Most likely you may have seen it too, or will see it soon. It's abt the Professor, married around 50yr maybe. He openly confessed of loving many of his girl students. My God! Generally I've seen people denying it...but what times are we living in?? He openly confessed...Yes I've loved many girl students before his wife...and when the media asked him qustions...It was funny he was saying to them "Aap atke kyun nahi sochthe". Needless to say how mad was the wife.

yeah...this is the question which I find it silly. Damn it! If you want to love...why the hell do you want to stay married? Just divorce and do whatever you want to. Can u believe...the sms? Most likely crooks like him must have sms'd it was 64% yes.

When I was watching I was just thinking of you women...wondering what wud they think of such things.

Love..Sachin

mieke, carry on with your interesting story. you had to be first left alone to be able to have the company of ALL that is ONE. you had to first 'die' to all particulars to be able to be with the ONE general.

In one of my talks with the doctor he asked me to write down the things that bothered me the most and i did and hereunder:

All the time that this doubt about my husband was in my mind there also was this little voice that asked me the question and what would you do if it was really true, what would you like to do, be honest with yourself you would also like to be with someone else, a man who would understand you.

And so, now i found someone, my doctor, the first one of whom i thought he really understood me. So what i wrote down before my very eyes was that i felt this great sexual energy but would only give it to a man that really understood me, not necessarily meaning the doctor in particular.

When my doctor read this for the first time he threw it back to me with a disgusting look on his face. I took the writing back home with me and in an impulse gave it to my husband. He read it and asked me what i would really want to do about this. I told him that if he wanted to date another woman then why wouldn´t i do the same.
Then he told me that he had not been with another woman and that we´d better talk this thing over once an for all, to have clarity about this for both of us.

He said to me: i do not want my wife to date another man as i will not do this either. So you have the choice, stay with me and make this promise or go and find out for yourself what you want. Sleep it over.

And i did, told him the next morning that i wanted to stay with him, and from that moment on we became friends.

Have to go now, will be back later :)

Dear Sachin

Whatever you hope to discover from my zodiac you will no doubt find in my words.
Yes I saw the story but I find Hindi news channels have a puerile take on most stories so they hardly report the truth & hence I find it a bit difficult to comment either way. Human relationships are more complex than a 24x7 news channel.

Dear Mieke

If I may say so this experience with all its paradoxes & curves was perhaps the most powerful and far deeper experience of Oneness than the one usually referred to by you. It brought you back to yourself through known & sustainable roads of the Self. And therefore a far greater miracle for dropping the fear, dependancy etc which traps us in our illusory mind. Finding that core in this instance has transformed and rooted you in irreversible ways and that too within intimacy- a kind of final frontier.

Actually it is here, where our mind dwells that the road to awareness really lies. In my experience too often our 'celestial' experiences wrongly create a sense of great advancement and we fail at the most basic challenges.

Yours is a moving and inspiring story. Thank You for sharing it.

Much Love

Jasjit..I agree with you abt the news channels, but when they show the real people talking abt it, then it isn't far from the truth. Kahin aisa tho nahin ke tum Truth dekhna hee nahi chahthi vho? Kahin mere saath tho gussein mein nahi vho? Lagtha tho nahin, but post mein affection aur interest nahi hain.

Love..Sachin

Dear Jasjit, perhaps up till now i did not dare to tell anyone this story, but when i started translating Harbs book, it all became clear to me. By translating his book i relived this part of my life again and now it truly became clear to me where i was heading to. The labyrinth told me already i could leave the past behind but that was not yet the ultimate satisfaction i was seeking for. In the last part of my story i hope to make this clear to you and all interested :)

After starting to translate Harb´s book, i could clearly see how the gravitational and electromagnetic forces did their job on me and after that i was ready to experience the strong forces.

By making all those games, learning to program, developing my English, reading lots of books, i was investigating rationally what i experienced before. Still searching, making all those mazes, being involved in a man´s world, cause i was the only woman present in that computer club except for the lady that made our 2-monthly magazine.
In a way making room for the masculine to develop in myself :)

Then came that course with the retirement of my husband and the fourth phase was slowly nearing (the weak forces). On the last day we were all invited to choose a sentence from a little booklet that appealed to us the most. I picked:

"S/he who wants to embrace the whole world must have a big fire within"

Now why did i choose that one? Did not know at that time, but as soon as i brought the thought into my world, things started to develop in that direction.

First the labyrinth made me aware of the fact i had closed a period. Things were ok so i could move on.

I started blogging on Intent, expressing my thoughts there, came into contact with Harb and by translating his book, reliving a lesson I still had to learn, i.e. accepting the fact that i am a sexual being and am allowed to express that :)

During that time i followed a course in a monestary in which we had to do this vizualisation of meeting our father and mother and then let things develop. It was then that i was able to reconcile my inner child with my inner parents. I found a little booklet there in the English language called: "We are one". In it i read a little story about: "´God is Abbamma". Jesus called God "Abba" which is Aramaic for Daddy, dad, papa. It is small child talk. Amma is the word for mother in Aramaic.

"As God is our Father, so truly is God our Mother" (Julian of Norwich). A few weeks later i found a beautiful reproduction of Abbamma back in the Gardens of Life, made by a Dutch artist. I made a picture of it and sent it to Harb.

The message we were to take with us after this course was: "all is as it is and so it is".

To me all these things, happening in my life at the exact moment i needed it, prove that we live our life destined towards something, yet we are able to direct our choices and when we are aware of this we can take responsibility for it and make the appropriate choices. This really makes it possible to start living from the heart. And that means surrendering in gratitude and be ONE with all and everything: the weak forces.

And now i am at a crossing point again and the next challenge already before me: i have been asked to translate a column on the Dutch website of the writer for whom i translated two books, called: "Making choices" lol.

I cannot but surrender to it all in gratitude and see what happens next.

Dear Harb,

I am now getting more and more interested in the quotes you have given here above. Now that i have seen my life unfolding by writing it down here, i can see in a lot of quotes that both my husband and i have been able to develop ourselves in the directions you describe and we both were destined for this and still are, learning from each other:).

And not everyone of my generation is dealing with the retirement of their husbands so well.
That was the outcome of an investigation one of our national papers had performed in the beginning of this year.

And perhaps it might also again be suitable for part of the generation that are now in their thirties, cause despite the fact that they invented a kind of Fun Emancipation (both working for a few days, so that they can give more attention to their kids), they are not totally happy with this.

Indeed, i would like to receive a copy of your translation :)

Thanks

mieke, how correctly you have described your evolution through four phases and particularly the third phase. now you are in the forth phase of BEING. all senses-driven, emotional and intellectual/mental entanglements are gone to a considerable extent. no doubt the fourth phase will have its own four like phases but circumscribed at the base now by the weak forces, which means though even now in this phase as well you will go through gravitational, electromagnetic, strong and weak phases but these will operate within the parametres set by the weak forces. you will enjoy your senses but not be swayed by them, you will have emotions/feelings but will not be swayed by them, your mind/intellect will work but within the overall intelligence now of the weak forces...it will be in your control rather than the otherway around...

enjoy...

jasjit, indeed, the 'celestial' experience of oneness is not an end in itself.

lt is just like the experience of love-at-first-sight only at a far deeper level of one's being and hence/moreover with the whole universe rather than with a particular individual of the opppoiste sex.

scientifically, it is because the first experience is at the quantum-self level while the second is at what david bohm called super quantum potential level if i may say so. it may also be explained as, the first is at physical heart level or second chakra level while the second is at spiritual heart level of fourth chakra level. it is also because the first is at electromagnetic forces level the second is at weak forces level.

anyway, and just as even after having had the experience of love it is an ongoing whole-life job to really reach the soul of the other in total union/oneness, overcoming on the way the challenges of the whole separate physical/emotional/intellectual bodies, similarly, it is an ongoing whole-life job to really relize that c'elestial' oneness once again in conscious way overcoming on the way the above-like many physical, emotional and intellectual or mental or egoistic challenges, during the course of which the possibility of flatering is always there. not for nothing many lovers rather end up in separations. it is inded a life-long, and even many many lives-long job. bravo to the journey!!

Thanks Harb, i will :)

Much love

Mieke, thankyou!! That was sweet.

Much love to you Mieke,

North

Dear North, you are very welcome!

Great pictures of Lee playing with his band lol
And what a nice ones of yourself, great surprise for me :)

Much love to you

HI Mieke, I plan on posting lots of old and recent pics!! Ones that are special to me, including some of my newspaper articles with my picture. : ) Not many recent pics of me though, because I am usually the one taking the pics!

Lee had so much fun playing in that class band!

Isn't Oreo beautiful? I sure miss him...

North

Hé North, you´re starting already remembering all those good old days lol

Yes Oreo is beautiful.

Will visit you regularly there. Still do not want my own blog yet so i will post my comments here and there :)

HI Mieke, tried to EM you back, but my hotmail keeps freezing when I try to reply!! almost 2 days now... : ) Lee says it's spyware on my PC.

Glad you read my newspaper clippings I posted there today! I won't post all of them, there are too many.. just a few significant political issues which were addressed at the times dated.

Lots has changed in five years...

North

Hi Mieke,

Thank you for sharing this experience on the blog. Though the actual content of our problems might be different, I'm sure your experience will help many of us on the blog to understand how we can work towards tackling our fears.

I would just like to add that many of us think that the experience of oneness happens only once, But that is not it. Things keep coming up in our life that give us chance to move towards different levels of oneness- from lower to higher.

Meanwhile it's a beautiful day here in Delhi. Cool wind. cloudy skies, temp has dropped and touch wood electricity is behaving till now :)

I hope the rains have stopped causing havoc for our friends in Mumbai, Pune.

Hello Sachin,

I have not seen the particular news that you mentioned. Did the media ask his wife any questions or did they keep on asking the Principal reasons for his behaviour and the number of girls he has 'loved'?

Hi North, i assume that you have a virusscanner on your PC. As far as spyware is concerned, there is a free program called AdAware that can investigate the contents of your PC and delete critical objects. It is available at www.lavasoft.com

Love,

Hi Chaitali, if i have been of any help at all i will be grateful. By sharing it i helped myself :)

Great to read that the weather has changed positively and that electricity is available again at your end :)

Hi Chaitali...The day I wrote that post, it was big news then. It was in Patna. For sure, it's going to be big news there. Later, the Women's rights activists had a big talk on it. It was really interesting to see each one's perspec. One was talking abt marriage and the other one abt Love(the love sounded true though). It will go to the court, will be quite hard to judge I think.

It's fine that you may have missed, I'm sure you wud have been able to express your insights on it as a feminist. Kya hai nahi? Jasjit talks so much abt feminism and equality...such a big thing happening, and just avoiding the topic. It's a discussion board, and you people are into it...this is what you do in your life and when someone like me comes along and asks for your views sincerely, what do you think of all this ? Turn away...one can give 100 explanations in defence. Not fair!!

Truly..Sachin

Hi Sachin,

Once in an interview in an NGO I was asked "Are you a feminist?" And I had said no. Then they asked me "then how do you intend to work on gender issues?" I told them I don't need to call myself a feminist to work on gender issues. What I need is sensitivity towards and for the people, whether male or female, to carry out my work on gender and sexuality issues.

In your description of the news item you have mentioned what the principal said. I did not make a comment because I needed to have the whole picture first and not jump into lines of male bashing or sympathy for the wife. That is why I wanted to know if the wife had been shown giving any opinion.

Sachin in my work on media potrayal of issues of sexuality, women etc. I have often found that media manipulates situations to fit it's own agenda which is sensational news. They often omit vital voices from their soundbytes to include only those that will titilate and excite the viewers in a biased manner.

Ok forget about all this. If we take the version that you have mentioned in your comment where the man is shown to have had affairs with other girls in his 50 years of marriage and is quite open about it. What is there to say in it except for that his 50 years of marriage is a farce and you have already said that yourself.

For me it would have been an interesting discussion if I knew what the wife had to say. For it is then that the discussion would be interesting and not when one party concerned with the issues is muted (the wife, the woman).

Dear Sachin,

To add IFSHA is not a femininst organisation. We look at aspects of gender and sexuality both from a male and female perspective.

Hi Chaitali...You make good points all over. I agree with every point. I Wish you had seen that on tv. It def was not one of those where the media was tampering with it. Even I thought initially, as is our initial reacion...some cheap story again, but later as it went deeper..I came to see much deper aspects of rel.

I understand what IFSHA is abt. Gender and sexuality and not a feminist organization in the strict sense. But It's like saying "I'm a Gastroenterologist, so I don't know much abt Kidneys". These are basic issues, even a common man with some sensitivity shud be able to hear.

This story is close Chaitali to what you people discuss here, and I was surprised with someone like Jasjit, just brushing it aside even after seeing it. On one hand Chaitali you say.."No we do welcome people and interact". When someone is sincerely asking abt it...what ru doing? I'm not talking abt you Chaitali, becoz you didn't see it.

Anyway...coming to that story. It's Really Very interesting, in the sense it is becoming so hard for the women's rts people, the lawyer, the wife, the lovers. When you hear each of them, it feels as though everyone is rt from their perspec.

The core of the battle was between "Love" and "Marriage". For me, both are sacred! Ideally one without the other doesn't make much sense to me, but Love is the Ultimate! That marriage did turn out to be a sham with little love, but just like most Indian women...she seemed to have devoted lot to her family. The wife was Broken totally. Why wudn't she be?? When her man does that kind of thing. Almost all the women were on her side. I myself felt very compassionate for her and thought she shud be given justice. But on the other hand when I saw the young girl's love for the Professor, I was stunned. At first, I thought must be some physical...but later as she went on speaking abt love. My God! And all the Dirt of the Samaj we live in. She was really up in her head and thinking. She did seem to have a great understanding of what love was and the hypocrisy of this society.

Marriage, if on one hand is Sacred and an institution...then on the other it can be a Prison, most suffocating one if there is incompatibility and no love. This case classically looked like that, as per the expression of their emotions of the prof and his wife. This was the reason, my first point to Jasjit was this. Why don't people just divorce, if they want to do such things?? Why wud you want to be so Unjust to, with whom you're living? As per the law, it is betrayal. The woman lawyer clearly said "This man is in trouble and will be punished". But when we think from the perspective of Love between two people of opp sex, then the marriage didn't have and both seemed to suffer. While the lovers seemed Very happy in their company. Had it been a country like US, the prof cud have divorced easily and lived happily with the young girl, it's so easy there. I think that is how it shud be, no force from the society really.

I was really deeply thinking abt this. Love ya Marriage? Sham marriage to be precise. But Laws and human rts are equally important. Intricate!

Truly..Sachin

Dear All, just turned on the news, hearing of the shocking bombings in Mumbai!

I am praying that all of our friends in Mumbai whom frequent here, are OK!! Please report in, so will know that you are OK!!

May we all unite in prayer, for the deceased, the berieved, and for their families and friends; and for the injured.

I cannot believe this has happend; it's such a shock.. and I am way over here, in Canada.

My prayers, love to all of you in India!!

North

Dear North

Thank you for your wishes and prayers. It has been quite a devastating time for all in Mumbai and the rains have just made everyone's access to help all that much worse.

Love

North thank you for your prayers. It is indeed very tragic. So many lives lost... so many people have lost their dear ones and so many struggling with their lives and trying to heal from their physical and mental injury.

We are all also praying for the well-being of the people and our friends and their families in Mumbai.

Dear Jasjit...Galath jageh peh aa gaya tha idhar, vahi aur ek Andheri nagri, fairness kya hai? nahi patha. Pure focus on the content of the discussion bahut kam logon ko aatha hai, jisse unbias aur Objectivity kehthe hai.

Jho Izzath Tumein Bakshi thi, mujhe nahi lagtha uske Qabil thi tum, kaafi galath tha vho..but aise laga tha in the initial part of discussion..that you have it in you.

It is such a shocking event, so unexpected. I still find it hard to understand this kind of destruction and killing...

North

sachin sahih keh rahe ho....its time for you to perhaps move on.

Dear readers,
What a horrific tuesday it was for us mumbaikars.We all Mumbaikars have gone thru a series of unfortunate events in this month and especially with the serial bombing in Mumbai's lifeline changing it to the death row. Whatever are the intentions of the trouble makers but we all have stood strongly in order to help others. It took me almost 3 hrs to reach malad highway from bandstand Bandra. I thank the tempowala who gave me a lift till Andheri. I was overwhelmed to see Mumbaikars distributing biscuit packs and water to all the stranded commuters. My sincere thanks goes to the BEST for providing us buses wherever possible These were the only government officials who really sweat out everyday, unlike the rude conductors of Delhi who sit (officially) at one place to sell ticket. Hats off to all those people who went out of there way to help other. Mumbaikars Rocks more than the Blasts".It was an immense pleasure to know the spirit of the Mumbaikars and I think this has held the unity of such a fast and jaded city at shaded hours. Certainly believing that "one should extend his arms when given an opportunity to give",my deep condolence and support to all the families who lost their family members.It was a very sad sight and sickening to see fellow citizens in such a state. No words can effectively describe this barbaric terror act. The spirit of Mumbai has once again come to the fore. It has always been a city which goes to any lengths to help strangers, no matter who and where you are. Seeing the conditions in the Sion hospital brought back haunting memories of the suffering I have so often seen in news papers. I pray for all those affected in the terror act.

Dear Sayan

Thank You for sharing that. Truly the spirit of Mumbai is inimitable. Just yesterday I was thinking as one more news/radio channel reported how amazing the support of people everywhere had been. How people were sharing their cars with stranded commuters, and even pavement dwellers ran to give way their ownly sari or bed sheet to help the bleeding and wounded.

And I could nopt help but the see the silver lining in the cloud. One the one hand scores have died, been injured and lost loved ones and on the other hand the event has brought up one resounding feeling for all as you say, 'Mumbaikars rock more than the blasts'. True there is much you spirited people need to feel proud of, no other city comes together quite this way. And in these times when one is fast losing faith in governance, administration and all state arms to just know this kind of power exists in a metro the size of Mumbai is a great feeling. And I feel this sense of pride, support and empathy will and does go a long way in healing wounds and putting the city back on its feet than any other 'state operation.'

Frankly since the power of terrorists lies in creating terror and havoc I feel Mumbai has built its own protection by saying 'no we are not going to be cowed down by you or anyone else.' That alone is going to make them disinterested in targetting Mumbai ever again. Because ultimately it is the spirit of the people that they have not been able to break.

You all have truly given the nation a unique example to follow in times when terror has become a way of life. So thank You to all Mumbaites and more power to your courage and compassion. I am sure each one who has personally suffered will be drawing strength from the support and love each one of you have shown.

Love, gratitude and blessings to all of you

This I've always believed, is the intention of evil as a thriving entity, equal in proportion to goodness...to break the human Spirit.

Since history long past, what we have seen, is the strength of the triumphant Spirit over strife, over war, over disease, starvation and death!

All the Mumbaikars whom were able to assist in even the smallest way if that is all they could provide, are the hero's unsung among us; which keep the pillars of hope, alive!

Definately, a wonderful silver lining, from such a blackened cloud...

I cannot imagine the level, to which shock and disbelief, would impact everyone with, that are there!!

Over here in Canada, we send our utmost sincere sympathies and prayer.

North

Dear Sayan,

I was seeing in news how bravely Mumbaikers are facing this tragedy, coming to rescue of the injured, rushing them to hospitals. Incredible spirit the city has.

Delhi does seem to lack the spirirt but of lately even Delhi has been showing such humanitarian gestures. The Uphaar tragedy saw the public coming ahead and helping the injured. In the serail bomb blast that took place last year a bus driver lost his eyesight after he asked all his passengers to get off the bus, took the bus to a safe place and in the process of throwing away the bomb, which exploded in his hand, lost his eyesight.

I agree Delhi has a long way to go. But keeping all these aside our prayers for all those who have been affected by this tragic event.

Sayan,

My heart goes out for those families who have lost their near and dear ones. But should we let the buck stop here? Is that all? We will go on with our lives, each year somewhere there will be a terrorist attack, we will be overwhelmed (again!) as to how many people died, how people helped each other...

My friend, whilst this is all ok, but we must make use of the indomitable human spirit to keep crush the evil. The time to hug evil with the thought that one day it will get discharged of its negative energies is long gone.

My suggestion would be, to see that such incidence doesn't happen again (am I thinking utopia! a shangri-la!!), we must form a strict community mindset which won't get carried away by the polished talks of the police, abominable 'chalta hai' comments of our politicians, 'take-it-easy' attitude of today's media (pardon me my media friends, but I have lost complete faith in the media. Reason - they are run by business houses which invariably has political affiliations and inclinations and therefore NOT TRUSTWORTHY!!!) where you will seldom find a straightforward question to those before them..and even if they do, the guy before them dodges them as a grown-up man plays with a newborn puppy, and they go to the next question.

Only when we question the viability of the person before us directly, in public or in person, then we can expect them to come on track. Start with the politicians, if we can bring them to power (like a child is brought to life) we can spank and thrash them too to bring a point or two home. Media can be shunned even more easily, don't buy them or view a programme which smacks of theatrics.

In short, sometimes you have to take law into your own hands for self defence, dont you??

Dear Lodestar

Hello and welcome to the blog.

I agree with you that we should not fall inot the games that police, politicians and media play. But in cases such as the Mumbai Bomb blast where the intention is to terrorize people I don't think going into a frenzy and taking the law into our hands (like what happens in riots) is going to lead us anywhere. It will only help the intentions of those who are trying to create chaos and fear in the general population.

Hi Noth, Jasjit, chaitali,

I totally agree with you. If we all believed in "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" then the entire world will be toothless and blind.

The day when the tragedy was being aired I couldn't watch for long as I started crying when the rescuers were almost in tears while narrating their experience. Later in the night as I tried to sleep I kept thinking about all those people who are not sleeping, but searching thru debris and morgues to find their dear ones.

Next morning the scene seemed to be same... as normal as ever.... and people were as cool as a cucumber as if "nothing has happened, life goes on".... definitely I agree that people should shake it off fast and regain their composure cause remorse only makes things worse.... but what surprised me most was that... soon as the episode was over a different kind of discussion were being aired, written in the papers blogs and eveywhere, which reminded me of the basic flaw in this country's psyche....

I thought of writing some condolence aricles in some popular blogs and newspaper site.... but I was so hurt and shocked to see the kind of things written there. There were people who were lauding the mumbaikars for standing upright to take a blow so severe, in their stride. While there were the other side of the mirror, that thousands of mumbaikars were acutally supporting and sheltering the insurgents. Be is Dawood, chhota shakeel or the bollywood.

Time and again outsiders have invaded and ravaged this country and we take pride in the way we come back to life once more. But at the root of it can't anybody spot that we are still divided. Division was the main reason why people could invade in first place. The reason why invaders could put in their fists in was because there are too many gaps in the fabric of our society.

Why is it that people suddenly got defensive and every blog had some people defending that "mumbai isn't rude (refering to the RD survey) and see what they have done"...
where does the comparision arise between cities and and their people and behaviour, and why.

Some days back when the RD survey was out, everwhere I read there were constant comparisons betwenn cities. a delhi-ite vs a b'lor-i vs, bongs, vs punj, vs guju, vs mumbaikar, vs mallu,

Why can't we say that we INDIANS have the indomitable spirit? Look at Latur, look at Gujrat, Look at the entire south India victim to Tsunami, Most of look at the hapless poor Kashmiris and kashmiri hindus... look at every Indian around you.

I think when we make such comments that, we delhi-ites are constantly living in fear, We mumbaikars are indomitable in spirit, We south-indians are tolerant and polite.... think and reword your phrase and say we INDIANS... as long as we remain divided and our "WE" remains restricted to our, clan, caste, region, religion etc.... our mindsets will not change.

Can we not all stand united and say that "WE INDIANS WE REMAIN UNDAUNTED AND INVINCIBLE."

Can we not stop counting the number of times "my city" was attakced and number of times, "yours"..

Can we not forget "my city" and think of "our country" "our world".

only when we unite in mind and spirit to feel the pain of each and every individual victim of terrorism, starting from WTC to London to Madrid and India... we cannot create an awareness to fight terrorism.

On this note I want to share a small news that " -- When Pakistan, asked for a militant in exchange of Sarabjit, his sister was the first one to say, "no we can't accept that".. That is the spirit and strength of Indian people. That was the level of sacrifice that the girl could go to for saving this country vis-a-vis her brother.

I think lets sit back and see why there is so much bickering and comparison between cities.

Rifts cannot be created. They are there. One can only tear it further... you can't make a hole in a solid garment, but in the strongest garment if there is a little tear then thru that you can rip the entire thing apart.

I don't hope or pray that any other city in the world should face sucha crisis ever again.

P.s. Dear Sayan, The delhi conductors are not rude. It's there duty to sit at one place... and it's the duty of a mumbai conductor to travel up and down. They are after all doing their jobs... there arises no comparison.

Let us all pray for peace in this world.

Dear Sangeeta,
Thanks for yourinformative,and extremely potent piece on mumbai blasts,whatever you have said is absolutely apt.That day actually we got a little bit carried away,firstly with the blasts,and the misplaced aggresion against the rioters.All this triggered the intense reaction against the survey.Yes i admit i also got a little bit carried away.Well on one hand was this sight of corpses everywhere and next the wailing of poor victims.Yes indeed the comparision between places castes languages everything is not good.But notwithstanding some criticism is indeed essential for proper working of the social climate of a place.Like for instance delhi,i was astudent of Delhi shool of economics for three years i know what delhi is,and i can say it with certainity there is something definitely wrong with the delhite attitude.I remember coming across a research that was done by a jnu researcher as to what exactly went wrong with the social climate of delhi,is it a case of too much progress in too little time,not allowing the delhites to accept the change, or the oter immogration problem from plces like haryana or bihar.Though my objective is never toberate a plce just like that,but fully believe that criticism is truly neeed for anyone to prosper.Looking forward to your comments.

Hello Sayan

I'm glad that I could get the point across, albeit partially. Criticism is good, as long as it reaches the right people. Besides attitude is a problem everywhere. Whether it suits us or not is our own personal view. We cannot generalise.

I am a bengali. I have lived the initial yrs of my life in cal and still I don't like that city. But for more personal reasons than anything to do with the city. But the people who live in cal swear that it's the best city.

I have been to Mumbai several times and I have many journo friends who hate Mumbai for all the reasons personal, which has nothing to do with the city. Then again there are some delhi people who recently migrated to Mumbai and love it.

Why one loves or hates a city is a very personal feeling and I think it takes more than 10 yrs to fall in love with an Indian city and forget your hometown. This is true for not just Indians but some of my firang friends are of the same view.

I have been living in Delhi for almost 30 yrs and I like this city. Only for some personal reasons. In some other ways I still feel I don't belong here. But then I have no reason to generalise that Delhi is best in all terms and other cities aren't. There are good and bad points everywhere.

One more point is immigration from other states is a fact. We can't deny it. The best way is to accept it. I still feel it's really not right to blame any community or region for taking over a city.
For yrs I have heard the bengalis put the blame on a certain community for "dirtying", "their" city.

I think the minute a city becomes a Metropolitan hub, then it is no longer a stronghold of one community. Progress and expansion towards a global city brings with it a lot of other problems which only a city can deal with. Punjabis have no hold on Delhi, just as Marathis have no hold on Mumbai. Kolkata is totally sold out to Marwaris and Biharis.

But all this is a gestation period. Soon the communities will amalgamate into one whole unit and then it won't remain sticking out like a sore point.

I guess if I was born in Mumbai or Cal and lived there for 25 yrs I would like that city.

I love India. I can't relate to people who say this city people are better than that city. I like to look at the bigger picture and try not to divide people by region.... i have met the best punjabi people in this city and have met the worst bengalis. So good and bad people are ev