Dear Jasjit,

I remember Osho from the late seventies and beginning eighties when he visited Europe and also our country. They called him Baghwan in that time. Many of the youth, a bit younger than me, from our country had already visited his ashram in India, in Poonha it was i believe at that time.

I haven´t seen him in person but saw him regularly on our tv and it struck me how empty his eyes were. I read his biography and was impressed by it. He had to suffer a lot before he reached his enlightenment. That was in total contradiction to the biography of Deepak Chopra that a read some 10 years later.

Baghwan did not appeal to me in that time, only his biography. I didn´t understand much from what he wrote. Yet one paragraph from one of his books has given me a great insight.

He made a comparison of daily life of a human in a special lucid way: he wrote : "when you awake in the morning think of yourself as a spring, slowly it will wind during the day until it is completely wound up. When you go to sleep, slowly let it unwind, thinking of everything you did that day in the opposite way, so the last thing you did first and so going back and back till you woke up. When you practise this every night, you will be able to look at your day in another way, have a good night sleep and awake afresh in the morning again.

I found this wisdom back in Harbs book: entanglement and disentanglement :)
Already in those day this was like an Eureka to me and i did practice it quite a lot.

So my memory of Osho is in the end a very positive one :)

Thank you for this enlightening article.
Much love,

lol mieke, you seem to have found your all-weather holy book in self designed universe! indeed, i myself am rediscovering it through you.

much love. harb

hi jasjit!

Hi Harb,

I guess this was one of the reasons i could make such a fluid translation of your book :)
Cause it intuitively appealed to me. Am happy i can read it now in Dutch lol

Much love to you

Dear Harb,

I want to add one more thing: Your evolution theory to me is the exact answer to the paradox Intelligent Design and Evolution.

Love,Mieke

mieke, thank you. you know neither i could have written it nor you understood it so easily if we had not had what we call our experiences of oneness. even more apt is your calling these the experience of big bang. these were no ordinary experiences of oneness which are rather intermediary and leave much to be desired in the persons undergoing it but really the experiences of the very beginning of the universe, undergoing which one sees not only how and why of the game of life as it unfolds in human being which came into existence much down the line but of all and everything, including animals, plants and even socalled non-living dead matter or grains of sand so to say as well.

your experience, in which you saw small star like dot bursting is in fact so significant that some day scientists may want to study it. you know some time back i pasted a copy of findings of some indian scisntists at intent blog in which they had written about finding an equation representing a theory of everything which predicted that according to it some far off stars will burst like the way you saw/described. and if it is seen in reality their theory will stand proved. they are now waiting for the construction of a huge telescope in usa which will be ready by 2011 and will be able to confirm if stars really do burst in that manner.

the reason you have already experiecned this bursting in you is that whatever we/science can see outside also happens inside us and mystics can see it there as well which you in fact did. as body/mind, extended principle/knowing principle, world-out-there/world-in-there never depart fully either in the deepest recesses in us or in the farthest of spacetime, you in fact experienced your oneness in the body/extended-principle part of it inside you while i in the mind/knowing-principle part. that is the only difference between our experiendes. they depart if at all so to say in bursting...whether inside or outside.

Jasjit,

I have not read much of Osho's books but excerpts from his books here and there. And what you say is true. He explains things in such a simple manner and with such a simple flow and with sych comprehensible examples that a complicated thing such as our mind becomes so easy to understand.

Coming to the part on anger. Definitley a good brisk walk helps one get over anger than throwing it at someone else. The latter only makes you feel exhausted and when you have calmed down you realize that a calm and focused discussion could have solved the issue rather than the angry outburst. Kind of makes you feel stupid for your reaction.

Thanks very much Harb for this lucid explanation. Only makes the future more exciting :).

I wonder though, as science is so rationalistic, that if and when they discover this, they can also evoke the unconditional love that accompanies all this, whether they will understand?

If we find out the theory of everything would it change that much in the world we live in?

Dear Jasjit,

Bow Downs! Bow Downs! ;- )

Cheers, Rohit

A completely misunderstood man in his times...now revered the world over for his amazing clarity of thought and expression.

I have developed a huge respect for Osho for the past one year since I have been introduced to him after a small visit to Pune.

Such people are born of the element of the Supersoul and are worthy of adoration and worship.

lots of love,

mieke, surely self designed universe is an exact answer to the paradox of intelligent design and evolution now being hotly debated in the usa. yet not many people can see through it like you. i wait for the day when it will be understood and appreciated in this way.

science, if and when it finds a theory of everything also called grandunification theory by them, which really is a oneness theory in other words for what is grandunification if not oneness - will understand/take it in the same mysterious/open-mouthed way as they had previously taken the quantum theory, for both really are as much different and same as love experience and sexual experience. scientists knew their quantum theory points towards something more profound though they could yet not pinpoint it just as sex also points towards love.

i cant say anything about unconditional love because it is much misunderstood term but what i can really say is that if science discovers such a theory it will signal the beginning of the end of science. people will begin to become more and more stoics as well as silent.

Harb, thanks :)
And to say it with the words of a very wise man (also misunderstood by a large part of the world):

"I place my intention in the field of all possibilities and detach myself from it" :)

Peace

No better, more synchronized post, was I to read tonight!

Great share from Osho, Jasjit.

I also like the painting on this post.

Dear North,

The painting has been done by Anusheh.

well drawn anusheh but i doubt whether rajneesh was at all a philosopher or not.Threr were many allegations against him.

Thanks Sayan. No actually Osho wasn't a philosopher at all, he was a mystic. As for allegations, Sayan....since the people who make allegations carry the narrow, suspicious and limited mind of the world, can they really ever understand the ways of the Master? I dont think so.

Hi Anusheh, you are a bit generalizing aren´t you, which i often do too lol
Oh if we were all mystics eh, but we aren´t (yet)

By the way, i thought this painting was one of Osho´s, but read you made it. Hats off! :)

Love, Mieke

where science ends philosophy begins
where philosophy ends mysticism begins
where mysticism ends The Way begins

The Way includes all, knows all,
knows that everything happens on its own accord
in eternal cycles
knowing which it keeps silent

the practitioner of The Way is
undefinable, indistinguishable, often unknown
though sometimes people call him a sage.

lao tze was one such sage...

Harb, you are becoming a poet yourself lol

How about Krishnamurti?

Very well done, Anusheh re: the painting!!

Jasjit, may I have your permission to paste this Osho story on my blog; and will provide a link to here. Anusheh, may I post your painting with it? I will add your name as the artist underneath it...

I just really "like it."

Jasjit

Thanx for a wonderful post. Can I just say that what I love about this blog is how every post makes you think about yourself and not pontificate about what's 'out there'. I have heard of Osho but never realized how clear and powerful (and real :) his messages are. If I want to read more on him what would you suggest I start with?

:)

Hi North

No problem, you can paste the post and the painting and a link would be great. :)

love

Hi Ananya

Glad the post and blog are of use :). If you live in Delhi you can visit a wonderful shop at ansal Plaza called Osho World- you will find all the books and discourses on tape/CD. Actually the first book I ever read was called Meditation-The Way of the White Clouds by Osho and was hooked. However you must find what calls to you. Each book is complete with who he is. Also our website has a Reading List with many books by Osho and I have written a small synopsis. Maybe you will find what you need there. There are many websites on him and the best ones are oshoworld.com and osho.com

Hope that helps:)

Awesome!! Thanks Jasjit : ) Your link is in my links section on my blog, and will post Osho, and the Painting is bonus to go with it,,,thanks ladies!! Anusheh, will also ensure you are named as the artist in the post.. it's sad to see art, un-named-anywhere!

Much appreciation, it's such a great read & reminder of the power of Self.

North

Dear anusheh,
The thing about rajneesh is i think the immense clout that he enjoyed with a lot of celebrities,that actually attracted a lot of people to his chapter.People use to flock to him for many reasons chief among them was the permissiveness in his ashrams,specifically considering the conservative mileu of the 60's 70's.Another thing was that he flouted conventions,now flouting conventions is good,but it is to be seen whether conventions flouted were for real spiritual ends.I think what he has taught has a lot to do with ancient indian tantrikism,so much so that in western world today the ancient art of tantra has been relegated to the status of a sexual exercise.

Sayan

"I think what he has taught.." is all I would like to comment on. Thinking as i have said is the disease of the intellect and has little to do with Truth and everything to do with contrived perception. Contrived because the 'thinking' mind is the gift of the ego and mistrust of the illusory world. It is a great tool to steer yourself in the world 'out there' but is nothing but an obstacle in the 'inner world'. Osho has a wonderful phrase 'tumhari drishti hi tumhari srishti hai'. I think it says it all.

when we approach a mystic 'thinking' does not help only 'feeling'leads to the 'knowing' we seek. And who we are drawn to also reflects who we are within. So your ideas about Osho are no different from the many who have tried to 'think' about what he preached, symbolized and expressed. Mine however are experiences from entering the world of his words and guidelines. I cannot even begin to share the infinitude of his persona.

So really I am not in a debate to 'prove' who or what he was. It is purely about how we experience someone and then again maybe how we are 'ready and open' to experiencing.

Just to add I too have carried the 'thinking' mind for a long time and have known and observed its working well. Mercifully I finally dropped it and that's when the difference becomes clear. :)

Anusheh
Did not quite got the diference between thinking and feeling.Anyway,all i am trying to say is that i dont know whether you area serious chanter or not i was once a part of hare krishna mahamantra and exactly after practising for few days i got results.If something similar have happened you by following oshos dictates then it is well and good.

Thanks North. Glad you liked the painting:-)

Sayan

the intellect is ego based, i.e. it is what we know and nurture as mind and so is the seat of all knowledge (not wisdom), fear, anger, rationale, logic, prejudice, etc. etc.

The heart is the seat of intuitive wisdom. That which is experienced and known. Which lies seperate from the contortions of the mind and lies beyond its prejudices and conditioning.

It doesnt matter what we think Sayan, truth lies elsewhere. In my humble opinion, to find truth the mind must surrender to the heart, until then we're only involved in intellectual masturbation.

Anusheh,
Its very stimulating to have conversations like this,because rarely you get the cahance to do bearing in mind the environment we are from.In this respect a very famous quote of Blaise Pascal comes into mind,"The heart knows reasons of which reasons know nothing" thus maybe emphasing the point that there is a thing for which we have come to this life.

Thanks for that beautiful quote Sayan, I shall cherish it:-)

Yes it is important to have such an environment to converse in and thank you for keeping the dialogue alive.

It should be a mutually complimentary,thank yu.Anyway right now i have procured the book called yogini written by sambhavi loraine chopra,i am now inthe frst 10 pages of the book.What are the books yu r reding right now?

Oh thats nice. Are you enjoying it so far?? There is a book called Aghora-the left handed path by Robert Svoboda which I have recently picked up again to read....have read it many times before. It's about the Aghori Vimalananda written by his disciple. Fascinating book. Let me know what you think of Yogini.

Is it a book more or less of the type of paramhansa yoganandas autobiography of a yogi?.That Is one of the most amazing books that i have read in my life,.It had dealt both with the philosophy behind miracles and other things,as well as some real life anecdotes.Is svoboda book like that.Does it deal with the Philosophy of aghora.

well yes it does deal with the philosophy of tantra's most potent path, that of the Aghoris, but its written as a dialogue between Svoboda and his Master Vimalananda. Their journey together, and their experiences. Its a fascinating account of the way of the Aghori and Vimalananda was an amazing Master. The Book is the first of a trilogy. Its the best one though in my opinion. You will really enjoy it. Its easily available in India.

Tell me anusheh what exatly is about aghors that makes it repulsive to many people.Can they also see the future and predict,and how do yu actually rationalise the fact of seeing ones and others futures?.

hai anusheh,
How are u doing?not seen you in the blog for days?

Hi Sayan

Sorry for not responding earlier. We've just initiated a new project and I have been really busy with it the last few weeks. As soon as things settle there I shall be on the blog more often.

Why the Aghori is repulsive to people Sayan IMO is reflective of people's inability to accept both sacred and profane as coming from the same light/divinity. In other words the duality of life. But with the Aghori everything gets stretched out to its maximum limit. Shav Sadhana, sitting in burial grounds, eating even shit, etc. are acts which Aghoris often indulge in. Not because they are maniacs, but simply because they are willing to go to any extreme to drop fear, duality and notions of sacred, and even to keep people away from them so that they can focus on their practice without distraction.

As for seeing into the future. Well we use this language when we still feel that time is divided into segments - past, present, future. For those who practice the way, time does not exist for they are well aware that the universal law works beyond the limited scope of time and that past present and future all exist in the same moment.
We with our limited understanding think that seeing into the future is a miraculous act. It isnt really. Its just the natural outcome of discovering the truth behind time.

What do you think?

Thanks a lot for responding,i wasd a actually a bit surprised not to find yu in the blog for a couple of days.Your last letter was quite informative however since time travel is one of my favourite topics to know about in life,it has always fascinated me when someone predicts your future.You have written in your letter,that one who are in the way,time does not exist for they are well aware that the universal law works beyond the limited scope of time and that past present and future all exist in the same moment,i can understand this is very interesting but i could not quite get your idea,can yu please explain it again.Like what you are saying,from what i have got is that time is ever flowing,and everything is just at its own moment,with no concept of past or present.Like if we draw a graph with x and y axis with x axis being constant like time,and y axis being the events that a person will get in life at particular points.I had seen both in autobiography yogi and as well as in yogini that spiritual masters,often can comprehend this truth.
P.S.
I remember i had come across,A book called tao of physics by Fritz capra it almost went over my head,but the author wanted to bridge the two eastern mysticism with western determinism.

Dear Sayan

Jasjit has written two posts on this blog which you can find in the archives (science section) called I SPy with my Eye Part I and Conclusion. If you read these you will perhaps be better able to understand why no past present and future exists. Let me know.

The Tao of physics I've heard is a fascinating book, though I've personally never read it. Perhaps you will pick it up at a later stage and it will all make sense then.

Hai anusheh,I have gone through the archives.One question is intent a function of destiny or free will?

Dear Sayan

You ask a very pertinent question. Intent is both a part of destiny and free will. For instance a child prodigy intends its genius from a time when free will cannot come into play because the child knows little about the choices it can avail. Hence its destiny- i.e the karmic weave which desired life (re-birth) to fulfill a powerful intention guides the child. However when the mind matures and the world becomes more cohesive in our understanding free will abounds as a choice. To give an example the four Vedic stages of brahmacharya, grihastha, vanprastha and sanyas points to the divide between destiny and free will. The first two stages act within the periphery of destiny i.e brahmacharya is the student of the world, and grihastha is the player within his karma- it is in vanprastha that contemplation of the material and ethereal take place- i.2 between destiny and free will. In understanding the larger purpose of the soul man contemplates the micro play of his/her life situation and then is able to make a choice on sanyas.

In out modern world these demarcations are not stringent but fluid in the way we experience and integrate life. So truly intention comes into play when we have absorbed the ability to examine the truth of life/existence and all that it offers. When we understand the road to suffering and the road to peace. :)

Dear jasjit,
Thanks for your reply,but tell me something what exactly is the philospohy/science beyond predicting ones future? ok i understand that there is no concept of past, present or future,and that,seeing future just means going beyond time as we know,but question remains does the seers take into account the free will part of ones existence.The reason i am asking this is because of the fact,that in any book including yoganandas autobiography of a yogi,or yogini by chopra,ample instances have been given,where the seer acurrately predicts the future of the person,.The question stems from there.

Another good question Sayan. Basically scriptures like Vedant define time to be fluid and relative and basically part of the individual observor's reality. Hence where does the question of predicting the future then come in? That can only happen if reality is static and unchangeable.

What we understand as clairvoyance into future events etc is basically an ability to predict time lines which are directly linked to present day intentions/decisions. Given an individual's present state, a yogi predicts a future based on karmic patterns and outcomes that an individual carries in his/her consciousness. However at any given time there is a whole host of potential outcomes. Most yogis will not bother with that because an average person will get hugely confused and is looking at specific (limited) possibilities of their life drama. For in every one's karmic field is the potential of complete TRANSFORMATION from where they are at....however since that requires first understanding, then desire and lastly the intention and icha shakti to acheive it, such a future is pointless to predict as a time line.

To understand this, one has to also see the fact that true yogis and enlightened beings live in what is known as 'beyond karma'. They have actually the ability to end all given event lines and recreate for themselves whatever they desire/intend. This is the state of complete free-will, is totally possible, is known as infinite potential and often referred to as the state where blessed ones choose when to enter their body and when to exit, i.e icha mrityu.

Dear jasjit.
Thanks for enlightening me on various aspects.Many times can it happen that just because very people try to cultivate their freewill,thats why yogis are often right,because you if you dont try to omprove your lot you will get exactly according to your destiny.

Dear jasjit.
Thanks for enlightening me on various aspects.Many times can it happen that just because very people try to cultivate their freewill,thats why yogis are often right,because you if you dont try to omprove your lot you will get exactly according to your destiny,right.

Dear Sayan

If we forget about yogis for some time and move to thinking that we have the power to predict our own future, it changes everything. For in knowing that, you place your attention on your intention and desires, understand the laws of cause and effect and move from the apathy of destiny to the fortitude of being a creator- of your own life that is. And yes that is all free will. :)

Jasjit
Thanks for the interesting conversation.SayaN