thats a very insightful share, shubhoshree...i have often wondered whether morality is the issue or fear of repurcussions in social spaces...fear is the key for a lot of manifests..i see a continuum...a cycle...dependance - rebellion - and finally the dawning of respectful inter-dependance...the youth of today go through this cycle with their parents...for a lot of women and in my opinion men too, breaking free of security and fear linked shackles is the key...it may manifest in rebellious aspects in transit before it settles down with a mature understanding of inder-dependancy in gregarious spaces...to me, the root issue to be addressed at personal levels is fears and insecurities which make us vulnerable and direct the course of our lives...an awareness of this stifling energy manifest within releases spaces within and we are able to address our vulnerabilities more maturely...fear is a great motivator and capable of making the meekest of us very aggressive and violent in our actions...
yes, as you put it , in any situation , i see it as always being about him or her and never the other...the other is a mere vehicle of an intent manifest arising from our needs within...

Thank you Sundar.

Yes, fear and insecurities do exist in the hearts of people trying to break away from the bondage. It requires a lot of courage in a society like ours to stand your ground. And I believe that to a large extent, the courage comes with an uncluttered mind. As long as there is confusion within, courage will never find a place.

Shubz

Your piece falls on my ears like the gentleness and the searing truths of a bhatyali (bengali for the boatman's song) it eulogizes the torrents and the gentle stream, the lifeline that the river is and the wilful spilling in spate devouring all in its way and returning spent, having altered in its aftermath, landscapes dumping rich and fertile treasures from its own belly, the intense yearning of man for the river's unfettered glory and the fear of its depths that keeps him rooted at the shores.

Passion like a river, ebbs and flows through centuries in literature, poetry and human enquiry as the great calling, perhaps whispering a great homecoming and then... the fears of its tides.

wow, thats a swell metaphor, jasjit...very poetic in its express...lovely...

Shubhoshree,

A very pertinent post, thanks!

Issues of morality are influenced by our social conditioning, childhood environment, role models, and are internalized accordingly.. very often morality masks our fears and insecurities, and manifests in behaviour patterns..

the bharatiya naari model is the epitome of morality... even until my generation,(women in their mid and late thirties) were brought up on heavy doses of conditioning.. and if you notice it always was about what we should not, could not do... years of dont laugh loudly, dont climb trees, dont go out to play, dont talk to or hang out with boys, (after puberty especially, even if they are family) dont do this, dont do that.. DONTs all the way... even today, majorly, women are conditioned to believe that they cannot think for themselves, cannot fend for themselves, can never be emotionally independent, and in many ways cannot be trusted...not supposed to put your self first - never... constant picture of being 'paraya dhan', never anything else. You had to learn to serve, and be silent since you were to go somewhere else and make it a home for a family... in short, never a person... so its always about the other..
And as women we are also conditioned into perpetuating the discrimination.. we still treat sons differently and men with diffidence...we are the shadows of discrimination, and in that patch of darkness no light shines.. it is imperative that we learn to work on ourselves...

Though things are changing, women like us who have been fortunate in access, opportunities are still a very miniscule minority.. even today education and a career always somewhere lead to the only goals - marriage and motherhood. So simple. And that's it, everything else is supposed to fall into place thereafter, all hunky dory, and doesnt need work or attention..

With large doses of exposure, information and new waves coming in the last decade and a half, one observes that there is behaviour change, and changing attitudes and mindsets..emerging trends..but one also sees today that there is immense confusion... while the roots are still there deep inside, we are attempting to cut or trim the boughs and branches...trying to find ways to cope..

You put it so aptly - relationships need constant work, attention, nurturing... all relationships... and somewhere each person must inculcate the courage to face the fact that sometimes we arrive at crossroads and at cross purposes ; and people can decide to take different, parallell paths... thats a lot of work ahead and somewhere the onus is on us to trigger and catalyse the seeds of transformation..

Shubz
What a wonderfully free piece of writing. Its so refreshing to read something on extra marital affairs without the humdrum of morality. To talk about affairs from the point of women's sexual autonomy in gentle non-shrill ways is rare. :-)

Dear Shubhosree,

Ditto with Anusheh. Such a refreshing way of bringing up this topic. How suffocating it is to hang on to relatinoships that only bring pain and suffering.

yin moving to the house of yang, yang moving to the house of both yin/yang in equal measure.

no wonder the older yang - who were yang in yang house and so pure yang - are more attractive to the ladies than the new yang.

and yes, shubhosree, there is never the 'other'. it is all and always each one of us's own play.

and oh yes, now yin will face the same problems yang previously suffered like being called immoral, aggressive, shameless....

an iota of truth, harb.

tx for that reminder on ramakrishna , anusheh...i also remember vivekanda receiving a critical spiritual lesson froma court dancer...to me, a dynamic morality is a function of integrity..

wow, sundar, a dynamic morality is a function of integrity..." this about sums it all.

Right then Harb

Now the Yins and Yangs have me so confused I feel like I need to ring a doorbell on Yin house and Yang house to say, please identify who or which one you are. lol

Sundar liked the Bhatyali similie na? Me too, it just flowed right out of me without any thought and I have to say( sorry I know this is going to sound immodest) that the beauty and resonance of the river as passion hit me and quite took my breath away with its truth. Strange (I know a little Bengali)all these years Bhatyali as a folk form always held a strange fascination for me. Melancholia, yearning, depth, solitude etc for me made up the haunting lyrics and melody. But I never made the connection and just now when I read Shubz's piece it just all spilled out quite nicely. So you must be wondering why I'm going on in this narcissitic fashion. Apologies but its just like an 'aha' moment quite by accident.

there has definately been a shift between the genders, which not only includes the workforce, but the identity of spousal role-modeling.

Some good points were made, on when the last generation of women would not leave a bad marriage for anything!

Todays women are so much more independant of a co-dependant relationship; it's remarkable, wonderful; and yet, I wonder: "how will these changes impact the future; as the last changes have significantly earmarked drastic changes in this current future, from our not-too distant past?"

North

Interesting question North. I always feel that when things have been at one extreme (women not leaving bad marriages for anything)they then naturally swing to the other. And only when both have been experienced is there a chance for what Buddha so aptly called 'the middle path'.

Sundar, Jasjit, Sukanya, Anusheh, Chaitali, Harb, North

Thank you all for appreciating the article.

I believe that each one of us undergoes a sea of change as we go through this journey called life. Our attitude towards life, love, relationships, our concepts about loyalty, infidelity, our mindset about gender roles etc. etc. - all of it keeps on evolving (at least I hope it does). I think it is fundamental to our existence.

And I am aware of the changes that have taken place in my thinking in the last few years.

As an example, let me share something with you. This was when the news of Aamir Khan and his wife's separation hit the media. I couldnt, for the life of me understand, how could a couple like Aamir Khan and his wife be separating??? It was something I couldnt fathom. All that I had read about - how they fell in love, how they fought battles with their respective families for that love and how they eventually ran away and got married. It upset me greatly to think that how could they have fallen out of love? And that too after so many years of marriage? I mean what is that??

Silly me! :). Today I realise that it was nothing but a need inside me to hold on to that first (and only one possible in one lifetime - yeah thats what I used to think) "love". But as I grew a little wiser, I began to view love in a totally different light. I began to realise that it is ok to fall in love, and then grow out of it too! YOU DO FALL IN LOVE AGAIN!!!

I know it all sounds funny now. But it took me some time to come to a position today where I can look back at that time and actually find it funny! And I believe that it is much better to take your own time to reach a stage of clarity, than still be stuck at that primitive era of skewed notions about all that is. Each one of us has his/her unique path and his/her own pace to reach a state of awareness. But it surely happens if one is receptive enough. Similarly, I am sure the society as a whole will also reach that stage (some day) when we will all be able to look back at these times and have a good hearty laugh :)

Shubhosree,

Thats a great peice youve written. Whether its the nude worship Chaitali mentioned or your piece, they both tell us how the female self has been always subdued.

But I'll be honest it has scared me a bit. All this talk about bidding adieu to a person becuase you have fallen out of love with him sounds very selfish to me. Perhaps becuase I have yet to realise the self in me :(

Dear Shubhosree,

I too liked Mr and Mrs Iyer a lot. I liked it because it showed a lot of love between a married woman and a stranger with such decent potrayals and subtle emotions that I got floored.

till then i held that there is no love in extra marital relations. its only for the sex and a release of pent up frustrations. but the movie changed my perspective a lot.

I wrote a review for the movie for a close circle of friends in June 2004. I reproduce it here.

"the movie released quite some time ago) is the delightful " Mr and Mrs Iyer"...i simply loved this movie. it talks of the love between an orthodox married tamilian girl (konkanasharma sen) with a child and a wildlife photographer (rahul bose) due to their being caught in extraordinary circumstances. they end up in the middle of communal riot ridden himalayas when travelling in a bus from the north east to calcutta.

the sensitivity of rahul bose...the magnificent locales and shots...the underlying secular message with loads of delightful and scary moments make this one movie not to be missed! but i must confess...konkana sharma has given the best performance i have seen till date....i couldnt imagine that this girl being a bengali potrayed the role of a tamil wife to such perfection. delightful. she deserves the national award which she got for this role.

" what colour are the leaves" asks bose.

" greeeeeenish yellow,....no no.......looks like they are yelllllllowish green...."replies sen.

pure ecstasy. :)

dont miss this movie this weekend...go get that dvd. and enjoy.

"good bye Mrs Iyer." says bose.

konkana , gazing at bose from tear laden eyes and a million complaints and helpless love replies " good bye Mr Iyer." .

was there love or infedility in this extramarital emotional attachment....i leave you to decide for yourselves....for me....the movie was perfused with ecstasy in every frame.

rating:
" Mr and Mrs Iyer" 6/5.(it is beyond rating)

love,

greeeeeenish yellow leaves....no no....yellllllowish green leaves.:)"

Sorry for the long post :)

ahh ...the bhatyali simile...aha flow from an aha person in aha space and for the reading pleasure of aha people like me..

aachi..."iyer"supply through you was enchanting by itself...

and shubhosree, the aamir angle....do yopu think it is accidental it is called "falling" in love.....after some falls, man realizes to "rise" in love and not just a few T-linked organs at that!!!!!!!

Dear Annie,

I didnt mean to scare you or anybody by this piece. I am not trying to imply that everyone WILL fall out of love. We dont even have to use the phrase "Falling out of love" if it scares you. Its simply about growing and evolving as two individuals. And as I said in my article too, the 2 people can either grow together or they can grow apart. So its upto you really! :)

Hope I have been able to put your fears to rest.

Good Morning Aachi,

Couldnt agree with you more. I can watch that movie over and over again with the same zeal. The sensitivity and subtlety of Aparna Sen is absolutely unmatchable. And I was totally floored by Konkona's tamil accent too ( I think the entire country was)!!! And I am a fan of Rahul Bose anyways :)

Yeah, extramarital affairs are not always about sexual satisfaction alone. It could just be someone that one shares the same mental wavelegnth with, an intellectual stimulation. Or it could be someone who fulfills her emotional needs of love, care, sensitivity etc. It all depends on whats missing from within us and thats what we seek outside. But I think the media is largely responsible for hammering the concept of sexual promiscuity as the only basis for extramarital affairs into our heads, be it the movies or those unwatchable soaps!!

Sundar,

You are right. Thats well put. I guess we all need to FALL in love a few times before we realise that its actually about RISING in love! Thanks for the share :)

jasjit can perhas clarify. when a women is entangled in a bad marriage she is told that she should be daring enough to come out and live her own life to the full. when a man is similarly entangled in a bad marriage he is advised that it is because of his non-acceptance of his yin, that accept it and you will have good relations with your wife/family. when man is concerned nobody suggests that he should come out of the bad marriage. why?

far potent than active cruelty could be passive cruelty.

'yin'teresting q, harb....though i am not sure if that inference is intended...personally, i see no reason why things should be different...in either case, while one may keep looking at solutions in external spaces, as in a change of circumstances, finally, i guess one has to look inward...i beleive people and events occur in our lives and drop off based on larger parameters....they address our deepest needs of learning...i do know you have disagreed earlier with me earlier when i shared this, but i feel life is relationships and they need setting right, getting completed of all their transactional nuances in karmic spaces in healing and acceptance, internally...the outer manifests happen...as we move towards freedom in oneness...if there is an incompletion to learning cycles, they remanifest through other sources...
just my pov from my understandings at this moment in time ....look forward to jasjit's and others' take on this...

sundar, you are right and i dont think i ever disagreed with you on this. perhaps at the end it depends upon each one's unique situation. there may be times we may learn from relationships then there may come the times when learning may have completed for that particular relationship and we may need to come out, especially if we have transcended them from the heart...

of course, i know, it is just to get a problem from the middle so as to be able to write/discuss something bout it. for otherwise, "with what else will you, you funny scribblers, fill your books?" to quote a line of Natraja(Shiva) from my book.

tx for that response , harb...maybe i misinterpreted something in an earlier dialogue...sorry...

c'mon sundar! nothing to be sorry for, just wanted to clarify my point...

use some relaxomantra along with ecomantra lol.

lol harb...am on my beads with the harbomantra "ananda anandam..."

wow, ananda anandam!

Hello Shubhosree,

A great article!Enjoyed reading it.
But tell me...as you say,life changes,people change,their likes and dislikes change.So,if you are married and after a few years you feel you are drifting away from your partner;you are no longer compatible; you should opt out of the marriage.But is there any guarantee that the same thing won't happen a 2nd or a 3rd time? The changing of partners will go on and on. You can't get along with a person---fine---say goodbye----and hopefully start looking for a better person. Our society just won't take it!Anyway,let the society go to ---- :)

Well Harb, yes you didnt use the word male bashing. But isnt it interesting how we project our fears in different ways. Some do it by becoming sexually aggressive, others do it by playing dirty and yet others couch it in sensitive language. I guess its like that passive cruelty thing you said....there is something called being sexually passive-aggressive. My question remains, what causes it so intensely in men across ages, and it seems consciousness. Would love to know your ideas.

Dear Sunrise,

Thats absolutely right what you say. There are no guarantees in life. There is no guarantee that the second person (or the third) that you choose will satisfy you at all levels, forever. But if it becomes a way of your life, then all I can say is that its time you did some self-introspection and figure out whats causing this pattern in your life? You need to go deep inside and try to understand what is it that makes you want to move on every time you are into a relationship. It may be an unstable self thats not letting you settle in one place. It could be fear of intimacy, insecurity about losing a person that you love and want to leave him before he leaves you, or just a confused mind which doesnt know what it wants .... so on and so forth. It varies according to the individual's state of awareness!

And about the society - yes let it go to hell! :)

anusheh, it is all because of energy trying to convert mattter into energy...it is the same process at an other level which forces you to try to give your consciousness/awareness to others around you who are deficient in it. when you tried to make that father of that boy see reason and let you council the boy you were doing the same thing at the end of the day - trying to raise his consciousness....trying to change his matter into energy...

jasjit, talking of bhatyali, i wonder if the river will be left with an identity of a river or will have any depth if it were not for the shores...

moreover, before the currents of the tides became too strong the scheme of things of the evolution made sure that it turns into an eddy...more the force from behind which previous caused tides the more the speed of the whirl but now no tides. the river has rather itself turned into a man sitting on the shores...a like if not greater depth has now come in his own self and aware of that really he is now not afraid of any of his previous depths...

moral: if you want to be accepted as a river, you will have to accept a shore...

Hi Sunrise,

You have raised a very important query here.
Shubhosree has very aptly answered it. If the same patterns keep happening in someone's life then it's time to look inwards.

"love" means different things to different people. If a person is constantly looking for love or the so called 'satifaction from being loved' from another person, then chances are he will keep searching. And possibly will go jumping from one relationship to another.

Love should never be, seeking self validation and acceptance from another person.

There is no such thing as a better person, or the greener pasture likewise there is no perfect person. It's the way you see another person as a perfect person when you love them. The day people stop looking at themselves from others' point of view, such fears will not come up.

But yes if someone feels trapped in a relationship, emotionally or physically, then it's better to walk on rather than let your soul rot. That is harmful for both the partners as well as the family.

"the day people start looking at themselves from other's points of view....lovely clarity of express, Sangeeta...

oops..that should read "stop" instead of "start"...

Thanks Sangeeta for reiterating my point.

"Love should never be, seeking self validation and acceptance from another person."

Couldnt agree with you more!

Dear Sangy,

I agree with you when you say that there is no perfect person. But there is no harm in creating a perfect person in our mind. What we need to keep in mind is that the perfect is only an 'ideal' form and that deviations from it are possible.

Dear Shubhosree,

Thanks for the response. I guess when we fall in love we think that we have reached our destination and make ourself believe that now our life is 'settled'. People in love say we'll grow old together not realising that as they grow they will evolve as individuals too.

Yes girls today are more aware of their self, their needs, desires and are therefore able to assert themselves. But the mothers of these girls are now caught in between this growing awareness about their self and their 'gender memory', as Jasjit has called it, of playing their role of the self sacrificing wife, mother. We really need to bring them out of this dilemma.

Good Afternoon Annie!

That is such a pertinent point that you have brought up about the women of the previous generation. They indeed go through a struggle within, when part of them realises that their daughters are actually living out the life that they always wanted to (or beginning to realise that it now) and want to support them whole heartedly. And there is this other part which is fearful of the social repercussions. Somewhere deep inside, they too want to change and live for themselves and not for the husband, children, in-laws, parents .... the list is endless.

I guess we can only try our best to help them come out of their shells as much as we can. But beyond a point, its their desire and intention that has to be strong enough to break away.

Hi Shubhoshree

I am a bit confused about your view points in this article. Are you saying that a woman should change her man if she finds a better one? Do you think it would have been better if Mrs Iyer had left her husband and gone with that photographer? I am sorry, I dont agree with you. You see, no one is perfect. There is always a better person. So should a woman keep on changing the man in her life as and when she finds a better person? No relationship will survive then. You had given example of your friend whose fiance was ALL BAD and the new man in her life was ALL GOOD. First of all people are not black and white. There are some good things in everyone. If this guy was a complete monster, why did that girl got engaged to him in the first place? She must have found some good things in him and she would have thought that these many qualities are enough for choosing him my husband. Now she is being greedy. Relationships are not commodities that if a better product comes in the market, you leave the one you have and get the new one. I think people should have a clear idea in their mind what they want from their relationships. Unless you are sure about that, then any relationship will not be good enough for you.
Your articles are interesting, so keep writing...

Ajay

Dear Ajay,

I think you have pretty much answered your question for me already :)

"If this guy was a complete monster, why did that girl got engaged to him in the first place?"

This is exactly my point. I am never talking about finding faults in the 'other'. (I am sorry if that didnt come across clearly to you.) The point that I have tried to make is exactly what you said - the girl didnt know what she wanted. and she shouldnt have gone ahead with it. similarly, mrs. iyer shouldnt have married that guy if thats not what made her truly happy. The reason why I gave these two examples was to butress my point about women still not finding the courage to act upon their desires.

My piece is essentially about how women today are beginning to realise what they want, their needs and desires, their sexual preferences, so and so forth. But expressing it without any fear is still not a common thing. And thats where these two examples came handy.

As for changing partner just because there is someone "better" out there now, is concerned - well, let me clarify that the word "better" that you are using is absolutely not what I implied at any point. It is not about finding someone "perfect". There is no such thing as the Perfect one, as you rightly said. It is not about intolerance or impatience. If you read my article a little more carefully, you will realise that I am stressing on the change that happens within that seeks something different from the relationship, with time. And I am not saying that this happens with women only. It can happen with men too. And I would still hold the same point of view as I did for women. I talk about women in the context of how the change in their own realisations is happening, how they are more aware of their desires now than ever before.

And if you read the last paragraph, I have suggested that when such a time comes, the two people involved should talk about it and work it out, if they can. I am not trying to say that the woman should just walk out. And also, if you read my response to Sunrise, you would see that I have clarified it there as well that if this (hopping from one partner to the other) becomes a sort of a pattern in your life (again, man or woman), then it is time to do some self-introspection and that there is something seriously wrong which needs to be addressed. I am reproducing the response for you here -

--------------------------------------------
"Dear Sunrise,

Thats absolutely right what you say. There are no guarantees in life. There is no guarantee that the second person (or the third) that you choose will satisfy you at all levels, forever. But if it becomes a way of your life, then all I can say is that its time you did some self-introspection and figure out whats causing this pattern in your life? You need to go deep inside and try to understand what is it that makes you want to move on every time you are into a relationship. It may be an unstable self thats not letting you settle in one place. It could be fear of intimacy, insecurity about losing a person that you love and want to leave him before he leaves you, or just a confused mind which doesnt know what it wants .... so on and so forth. It varies according to the individual's state of awareness!"

-------------------------------------------

Hope I have been able to lessen your confusion, if not removed it completely. Please do write in again if you are not satisfied.

Cheers!

Hi Shubhoshree,

Just wanted to say that i think i understand where Ajay's comment is coming from. i have a girlfriend and it does bother me to think that she might feel like moving on from me (for whatever reason). i guess, we guys are just a little too possessive about our gals and find it hard to let go ;-)

I've come across some really wide aspects of life, self, relationships and everything else that surrounds or even touches us as being human.

Shubhosree,

Wisely & boldly said: 'Its really not about the 'Other' but about self'.

And yes, Self-introspection, of course, is good for everyone in general & not just women

When you say 'do they grow together or do they grow apart? Ideally, the former is desired '. I would also desire for the former (knowing the possibility you've recounted immediately after saying it in your piece).

I had a few Questions but they're already answered in your comments to Sunrise, Ajay & others.

I'm writing on as it comes to me now ... without being bothered if this belongs here or not:
Basically, its about sticking together a li'l more if you see some light at the end of the tunnel when you've just entered it or have already walked a few steps into it.
In a relationship, Love or Marriage, both the sexes should stay alert & attentive to each other's needs or signals for any changes or desires that the 'Other' may be exhibiting or begins to exhibit. Communication is the best way of easing out many things at early stages. One should not easily give up from making sincere efforts towards making that bond better. But again, in doing so, one should also not forget one's own Identity and the fact that the other person may not always like such efforts.
The beauty of a relationship (Love or Marriage), is that it does not need to be "Perfect" from the start ... it can, in fact, BECOME PERFECT with faith, efforts & time.

I just wrote that out of sheer eagerness to express. I felt like doing so after reading only a few articles.

Well ... I guess you all have done your job well in the making of this Blog.

Will be around.

thats well exprsessed, aham..tx...just a pov that i would like to share...to me, there has been a move away from a seeking of perfection to an aspect of "wholeness"....the concept of perfection arises froma personal perspective of what is right...and a need to fit in people or events into that mould....wholeness emerges in an acceptance of the other as well as of events in a spirit of gratitude and sacredness....as chosen presences for our evolution and learnings...and lessons or their sources drop off from our lives just we drop off others' lives when learning equations are through...

Dear Aham,

Thank you for appreciating the article and the words of encouragement for the blog.

Cheers!

Feels good to be able to learn more at each return Sundar.

Thanks for the making it more "wholesome". Feels wiser to think that way of course.

Appriciate it.

tx, aham...love ur id..reminded of aham aavam maiyam....which i used to mug in my sanskrit class...

Hey,

Why don't i see shuboshree's profile here ??