Dear Meenakshi & vinay

You bring in simple, powerful messages in the most unobtrusive ways. that makes your stories very special and a great gift to parents. Thank You.

Indeed whether porn or what seems to fast becoming 'acceptable' levels of nudity and love display on the media all around us have to be tackled carefully and sensitively with children. They are the most observant and sponge-like in what they imbibe. Your point in parents displaying affection in front of children is critical since I have always felt that the lack of it in our society creates a kind of discomfirt/awkwardness in children when they watch other adults smooching etc. It also makes them curious and draws their attention far more than if it was part of a natural expression.

Especially like Shruti kids are articulate, outspoken and clear in what they feel. Parents using irritation or aggression to cover their own awkwardness damage the self-expression and openness in children in alarming ways. these tiny little moments which you handle with care are going a long way in sculpting a healthy, wholesome sense of self in Shruti.

Thank You for the reminders

Dear meenakshi and vinay,

Referrng to Shubhosree's article on timeless love where she mentions how we frown upon older people wanting love or companionship. I think one of the reasons as you have rightly said is the absence of affectionate or as you have put it scenes expressing love between parents or other older people around us.

But times are changing and lot of my friends are quite open when it comes to showing the love between them in front of their kids.

Meenakshi and Vinay

I quite look forward to your posts. Couldnt help but chuckle at how all children manage to really put adults on the spot and make them squirm. I know because I have two very bright nieces who often do the same to me. I have to say though that I havent always been as quick on my feet as you are:-) The sensitivity and openess that you are bringing Shruti up with is going to truly help her blossom into her own unique person.

love
Anusheh

Dear Meenakshi and Vinay,

the post made me smile a lot. it reminded me of childhood.

we used to be a joint family and there were about 4 to 5 uncle aunty pairs in the household apart from my parents.

Vaguely I remember how mystifying it was for kids like me who woke up in a completely different part of the room in the morning even though we had slept on the bed!:)

slowly it dawned on us that 'something' happened in the night.:)

The experience was repeated once when i slept in my Uncle's room. I was slowly carried to the edge of the room and made to sleep on a small bed there. By that time I was little experienced and didnt sleep...albeit for a few minutes. and then......

I had my first small sex education :) at the age of perhaps 7 to 9 years.

not that i understood everything but i gathered that something did happen.

it took a reproduction class lecture by my science teacher in 9th class to finally unravel the mystery for me.

:)

and happily I grew up with a good view of sex.

very nice post...growing up is a cosncious adult process while it is natural in children, i guess...until that naturalness is killed by out various interventional systems,often need -based...it is mostly conflict in parents/teachers which transmits to the children...again links in the chain which seems to emerge from man's ancient memories...at some stage, i guess, one needs to go to the roots of the issue as one explores them in one's life...while the best of intents are there, most solutions as they occur in our realms are reactive and more often than not, palliative...

Dear Meenakshi,

What a pleasure it is to read your pieces.

I admire the way you handled the situation. Kids today can be so brutal when it comes to saying it like it is. I cant remember a single instance when I might have put my parents in the spot like that, excpet for this one time - Since my birthday is just 1 day before my parents wedding anniversary, I had asked them very innocently, "but how is it possible?". And I dont think I received an answer. Everyone just smiled :-)

A very Good Morning to all.

Jasjit,

I agree with you when you say that there should be more display of love and affection in front of the kids so that they are comfortable with it and grow up with a healthy wholesome sense of sexuality. But I feel that its going to be critical for parents to know where to draw the line. I say this because I do not have too much faith in parenting (in India or anywhere else in the world).

Aachi,

Funny stuff!

Annie,

You are right about older people being totally left out of this as something that they are not supposed to do. And more so in India. One can find married couples kissing and smooching in front of their kids quite freely in places like US. For Indians, it is still a very hush-hush affair.

Meenakshi/Vinay,

I don't have kids yet but I'm going to save all your experiences for futuer use :)

Aachi,

You were lucky that your reproductive class helped you unravell the mystery. But my reproduction class only helped me demystyfy why women get periods and how a baby is formed in the woman's body. No mention of sex. Luckily I was able to learn about sex from informed sources.

Hi Meenakshi, (posting one -- society)

Nice article. It does raise a lot of questions. I do feel that a certain amount of show of affection gives the child a normal and happy view towards life, relationships, love and sex.

I think I'll tackle all that I feel like writing in several separate pieces. Happy reading

--------
The society no doubt is partly responsible in what we accept as normal Man-woman behaviour.
I'll bring out four examples from my life.

EXPERIENCE ONE -- In England and used to travel in very crowded trains. One day I saw an aged couple, with lots of shopping bags, boarding the train. There was only one seat. Normally in India, the seat would go to the woman and of course all the packets would be dumped on her. And the poor guy would be hanging on to the handle for the rest of the journey... But what I saw was really sweet. The old man sat down and the woman sat on his lap. They both were so comfortable. A few people around (brits) were smiling, but it wasn't awkward.

At a party in Delhi the same kind of thing was done by a young woman friend and every body gasped. The biggest gossip after that was -- aur kursi nahi the kya? All of these people who found it funny and juicy gossip were below 30 hip youngsters from very liberated society.

EXPERIENCE TWO -- I went to Mumbai to spend a holiday with my brother who is just a year older than me. Very much a liberated man of today was about 28 at that time. He wanted to show me the nightlife of M'bai, so at 2:30 we were taking a walk by the Marine Drive. The esplanade crowded with couples sitting back-to-back enjoying the sea breeze.

My brother quickly pulled me and said, "don't look that side. All kinds of things go on here."

"What kind?" I was curious. I still had the memory of a movie on gay pick up points, fresh in my mind.

"People kiss and all" he grunted totally disinterested in providing me the info.

"MEN?" I was further curious. He went white in the face and said, "no silly man and woman."

Though I didn't find that too obnoxious or repulsive, or shameful, but the same person who was so broad minded and in full praise of night life of mumbai was ready to permanently fix my head turned to the left so that I am shielded from that "not suitable for young girls" view.

What followed of course was a gr8 debate, where I tried to convince that not all people there, are doing bad things. Maybe some are married and have no space at home. Besides why is it bad anyway.

I succeeded in concluding that debate in a very long cold silence between the two of us.

And also maybe an image in his mind that I'm too fast for being his sister.

-----

So it's not always the society or the so-called images of "traditional", "yokel" people who have problem accepting public show of affection.

I hope I'm not being judgmental -- let me bring you some more examples in my next posting.

nice share, sangeeta..guess, discomfort , like everything else, lies in the mind of the beholder...and mind manifests various plays like morality hues to mask the discomfort...

Thank you sundar. true.

You can’t actually teach morality with stories and fables anymore. You have to teach with examples and real life experiences. That goes down better in the memory. Gone are the days when you tell your children these are the things you should or should not do.

Instead the best way is to give a practical example, “see if I did this, it hurt you, so if you do this, it will hurt others” I hope I’m legible enough.

Even with showing affection, the best way is to try something in full view. And see the reaction. If it’s acceptable they won’t bother. If it isn’t then you’ll see it in other attention seeking behavior.

Also the best way to avoid confusion, is that the gaps between the different worlds of the child should not be too wide. The atmosphere of the immediate family and the outer family, for eg school, friends etc, should somewhat be in sync in terms of behavior, culture, morality etc. Even the parents’ behavior should not be too different at different circles. That gives a child a lot of culture shocks. For eg. A friend of mine never smoked at home. Though her husband had no problem with it. She always smoked in office. When her girl saw it she was shocked.

It’s a tough job. I dealt with many children of different age groups.

And every time you tell them, “No” You are inviting trouble. Instead of saying, “don’t do this” I found a better way. I tell them, “Do this, but doing it this way will have such and such repercussions and so on, and vice versa.” Suddenly I find them becoming more open to understanding what they are doing and taking full responsibility of it. Thus I have taught them the morals yet not demeaning them or their actions in any way. Neither do I take any example of fairy tale to show them what might happen to them. They make their choices and believe you me that make them think and weigh the pros and cons.

Before I go to other experiences I’d share something about children.

How to inform, when to inform. Informations is already there. Help them glean what is useful for them.

Parenting is of course the toughest job in the world. It can be a tightrope walk. And before we start displaying affection what is most necessary is to understand the child thoroughly. Some children accept it as normal. Some have a distinct dislike.

Children today are much more intelligent than we think they are. I have seen that they can actually differentiate between what is normal, what is sleaze and what is porn or what is accepted in the family and what is not. Apart from that they have a distinct choice and their own value system. And it’s not always guided by anything in the family or what they see. It’s their personal view.

I have a nephew who's just turned 5. At 3 he developed certain traits. You couldn’t give him soup in a steel bowl. It had to be a bowl and a proper soupspoon. He doesn’t enter a bathroom if it’s unclean or wet. He has specifically told his parents that he likes bathrooms, which have toilet rolls. When the entire world loved Jassi. He hated Jassi, cause she wasn’t visually appealing to him. When he was younger he would give me “lippy kissy”. But now he refuses. Won’t budge with his choice either. He has a dislike for hard drinks being served at home. So his father has to hide his bottles. Surprisingly all these things that he says or does, has not been directed by the family. It’s something his own. He talks to inanimate objects and needs an explanation for everything.

A recent example -- When asked, “Whom do you love most” you would normally get an answer, mummy or daddy or granny. This guy first noted down all the names he could count in his fingers, and then suddenly realized the trap. Turned around and very seriously said, “This is a very bad thing to ask, why are you asking me this? I love everybody, why should I love someone more and some one less. I love everyone equally” So you see.

Some children are like sponge they accept everything. Others question, and with an acceptable answer, become quiet. So it depends on what a child sees, assumes, questions and is curious about. Thankfully with the information there is very little curiosity left, because everything is openly displayed. Some are not satisfied with acceptable answers. They question further. Then it’s best to give them the truth. Without demeaning or praising it. Have patience. You will soon see that he is choosing out certain things.

What I gathered in my experience with workshops with children of different age group is that they accept the truth very openly. Even if fantasy is designed around facts it is acceptable. They can very quickly find out what is fake and what is not. They have a mind and a tongue of their own. If they dislike it, they’ll tell you on your face. Whether you like it or don’t.

So, if you feel absolutely, absolutely comfortable kissing your spouse in public, only then you should go ahead with it in front of your kids. But if you feel that kissing and being open in front of them will make them more comfortable with sex then at the gist of it you are doing it for a purpose. And children are very clever pick that out.

tx for those sharings, sangeeta...fascinating....children belong to a future we have still not visited...while we can help them with foundations, they grow in their own destinies...was just wondering, the age old tradition of guru-shishya, where children went and stayed with evolved teachers...maybe it does address a lot of issues comfortably...i understand even sex education has been a part of the process under erudite masters;...today's education system takes care of mind space development to the exclusion of other aspects of the human...and thereby, arises a huge lacuna...not saying the ancient systems did not have their limitations, but they appear more intelligent in a holistic sense...

i have been fascinated by Masanobu Fukouka and his do nothing approach which was essentially in the realms of natural farming...having had the opportunity to meet him and some visit farms working on this approach, I have found a tremendous intelligence in this manifest...Fukuoka himself came into this abandoning conventional knowledge systems after he had a mystical expereince triggered by Mandala processes...A whole home -schooling has been inspired through tehis approach where interventions are minimal or none...making available rather than thrusting information is an approach here..,.i know a few friends who have tried this approach with their kids and it has worked remarkably...Maybe some of you have read the book, Totto Chan....brings tears to my eyes even as i think of it...the awe , the wondering aspect of the child which is sacrificed in today's processes...parenting can more often than not be about observing and learning...while our urges would be to correct, to give etc....children maybe there more for our receivings...

Aceptance and non acceptance being totally a personal choice. Two stories in contrast.

I have a friend who is a very liberated woman of today. When I say very -- read very emancipated.

Who has lived in a live in relationship, is very comfortable of her sexuality, and has no hang-ups or misconceptions about sex. She often complains that her parents are so enamored with each other. She has a perennial problem in understanding. (in her words) "they make 10 calls to each other at work. They still hold hands and kiss each other, cook and pamper each other and other such normal shows of affections. Every time he goes to work they will hug at the door saying bye to each other."

So even if her parents were being normally in love, she felt they were a pair and she was left out. I won't say she is weird. She has very liberal parents, has lived in a liberal society. Works in a very liberal atmosphere, yet when she talks dejectedly about that, she brings out her hidden resentment and a kind of sense of shame in being associated with her parents.

A feeling which probably she is carrying on from her childhood. Mind you she has a sibling as well. Though I don't the other sister's feelings.

Probably I could go back to a psychological fact I learned from a friend. Every human being's life is divided in two parts. Pre 5yrs and post 5yrs. It's seen that the entire part of our lives are guided by what we actually feel and learn within that first 5yrs span of life.

In total contrast I am open-minded but really can’t say I’m extremely emancipated. I still have some residue, middle class and traditional values.

I remember when my father used to leave for office, my mom used to stand at the door. She simply stood there till his scooter was visible till the bend of the road. Once one of our neighbors pointedly teased my mother, "even after two grown up children your love hasn't ceased."

I do remember my parents sharing hugs and sitting or chatting and sharing jokes among themselves. Frankly we never found it abnormal.

Whether it was a higher level of acceptance, or lesser level of curiosity. But we accepted that very normal. I guess all about acceptance is about personal tastes.

Hi Sangeeta,

You're absolutely right, the first five to seven years are very critical for children as far as forming personalities goes.

Interesting you bring up this point of how children can begin to feel jealous if parents are overly affectionate towards each other. I guess it happens when the love is at the expense of the child, if you know what I mean. At some point the child has to have experienced their love as being intrusive to its own space with either parent. Being emancipated or liberated does not in anyway imply emotionally healthy or resolved.

interesting shares again, sangeeta...to me, freedom or emancipation is not in the external world...you shared the first story where your friend had a different lifestyle perspective than her parents...both maybe happy where they are...but to me, freedom goes a step further in its ability to see and accept the other with a differing perspective...whenever we are bound in positionality to any concept, we chain ourselves in bondage...to me,the content of the concept is immaterial...life is all encompassing to embrace a variety of paradoxical concepts concurrently...
freedom is not about being comfortable in a particular situation; it is a state of being independent of situations...does not mean that we wont have our preferences...but freedom is an inner experience beyond stifling positionalities.
a woman maybe joyous being a homemaker while there is a tendency to look down on it in some perspectives of emancipation.
To me, she can be free either as a homemaker or not....when the freedom within allows her to actualize her choices or accept situations out of choice...
freedom is not about transiting through concepts or repositioning ourselves...that could be merely reactive, not liberating at all...when the concepts in our lives link up to positionalities, which are ego-centric, bondage manifests....

True. I agree with both Sundar and Anuseh.

Anuseh -- A lot of people feel that being liberated in behaviour is equivalent to mental liberation. And vice versa. Which in a way is not really true. Most people are so tied up with images and counter images that it's very difficult to define what is menatal liberation. Or for that matter emancipation. It's such a vast word and yet so deep. And I think it is the most misunderstood word as well.

Sundar -- you picked up a topic which I often see around me. The age old fight between Homemaker and working woman. Again I think most people work around images or into role playing.

You know what I feel about freedom. "Nobody likes it if it is given to you on a platter. It's the adrenalin rush of earning it." Now for the stories I said... probably for a traditional person being ultra hip is freedom. Where as for an ultra hip person going back to tradition is freedom. It's all about rebellion.

I think we are going on a tangent from where I began. Freedom is subject, about which, I can rant all night. Will save precious blog space now.

Coming back to my friend.
Probably the fact that she had the 'ideal' situation around her. (so-called 'ideal') that she longed for more staid parents who would not display their emotions so much. Where as I know many people among us who have had staid parents, long for a mere sign of love between the parents.

About displaying our physical relaionship in front of the kids. The thing is each kid takes it differently. Some accept it with an open mind and some don't. There is no guarantee or genetic rule that a very aware parents' child will be equally open to it.

So I would probably "test waters, give them small dosage and see the reaction and then move further." Probably my friends' parents were trying to be very liberated, instead they alieanated her. That's my understanding.

"About displaying our physical relaionship in front of the kids. The thing is each kid takes it differently. Some accept it with an open mind and some don't. There is no guarantee or genetic rule that a very aware parents' child will be equally open to it.

HI Sangeeta,

Just wanted to say that I dont think there is any need to press the panic button. if i understand correctly, i dont think that the people here are talking about displaying "everything" (if you know what I mean) in front of the kids. it could be just a peck on the cheek or lips every day when they get back home from work, or a hug every now and then, or cuddle while watching TV and so on.... And i am not quite sure if i understand what you mean when you say - "So I would probably test waters, give them small dosage and see the reaction and then move further." How much further do you plan on going? :-).

so i just feel that as long as parents know how much is ok, it is all good!

Hi Shalini,

Good you got a query... I'll try to address it.

My comments are inter-related. In fact it was in continuation of the earlier posting on a particular example. How one child accepts simple hugs and kisses or cuddling and pecks between parents, as a normal day to day affair.

Where as another child couldn't take it. For her a simple act of holding hands was unacceptable. When the parents were holding hands, she felt that her space was encroached. Probably she didn't say anything about it to them, but the fact that at 35 she still has some resentment against them, speaks volumes. She isn't abnormal, neither her are parents displaying 'everything'.

I mean, you and I may think that it's perfectly normal, but each child's reaction to it may vary. Even in a house two siblings may react to the same situation differently.

That's why I say, I may absolutely normally be hugging my husband all the time, but I don't know how the child will take it. I can shrug it off saying I don't care. That, this is normal. Or I could try to understand the child. Instead of panic we need patience. That's what I meant by testing waters.

I wouldn't want to leave a scar in him/her that we were a pair and she/he was left out. Neither would I set down rules for "normal behaviour in front of children."

There can never be one type of guidelines for all children. Each parent has to find out on his or her own.

Shruti asked, "why don't you kiss in front of us"... for her it's ok. Where as my friend always asked, "why couldn't they kiss in private"... for her it wasn't ok.

See what I mean. If you read the last paragraph of Meenakshi's posting. It's just my point of view of "when, how or what to inform" while "informing your children on sex and sexuality."

"The porn is no more a specialized stream. It is facing stiff competition from print, television and cinema." I dont know if I would equate pornography with what is happening on television and print media. Surely porn is much more horrendous and violative is it not? I enjoyed reading about your interaction with your daughter.

Kranti

If you watch what is available on T.V today (both Indian and foreign) the lines are quite fine. Much on T.V would certainly fall into soft porn and for the fact that India has had a very 'conservative' media in the past the pace at which this exposure has come can be even more unsettling than what we call hard porn.

I totally agree with Jasjit. considering the fact that TV reaches each and every home. The content of some programs could be equivalent to soft porn.
In India it is more startling because the chasm between the real world and the world projected in TV is way too different.

Thanks for the clarification Sangeeta. I am sure you are going to be an intelligent and sensitive parent! :)

Hi all, have been away from the internet for a few days and now theres a lot to catch up on!! Thanks for your post Meenakshi and Vinay. Its always good to know that there are parents who push the boundaries of communication with their kids.

Dear meenakshi, Congratulations for handling the tricky situation so well.I also believe in the same principle of being open to children and I did not know how to convince my husband but after reading this piece of extract I think not only my husband but many parents would get benefitted and not hide love from children as if it is a crime they are comitting.
At the age of two my daughter, Adhiti knew the word pregnant and that babies are born from moms tummy of course not as a result of what tho.And one fine day at the age of two she saw a fat owl sitting near our apartments and when my sister in law's child asked her why that owl has a bulging tummy she immediately announced to everbody's surprise that the owl is pregnant and is going to have a baby!!!